12 Steps, Time Frame

[GlassPrisoner]

I know there's know right answer for this. Some quickly, and some slowly, but what is a good rule of thumb for working the steps, time wise ?

I finished mine in about 90-120 days. My sponsor also did. I see a lot of people in meetings, though, with a year of sobriety and still in steps 2 or 3.

What brings this out, is I was talking to another Alkie today, my biggest client and possible boss actually. I told her I worked the steps in 90 days, and she said "(long pause) That's OK (pauses) you can always do them again"

I'm not too offended. If she really was being condescending, then she's only questioning my sponsors methods and, more importantly, my Higher Power.

[laurie6781]

No Glass, I don't believe she was being condescending. She was commenting from her own experience.

You will work the steps many many times during your recovery. You see part of Step 12 is "...to practice these principles in all our affairs."

That means in our life. Thus now you will learn how to LIVE the 12 steps in every aspect of your life, at work, at the grocery store, driving down the road, etc etc.

First we work the steps, then.....................we begin to LIVE the steps One Day At A Time.

I just keep trudgin, even when the alligators have been up to my azz, rofl, and I do it ODAAT. For a very long time now and it justs gets BETTER and BETTER!!!!

J M H O

Love and hugs,

[GlassPrisoner]

Thanks Laurie.

The Alkie I am, I was almost starting to obsess. But we never do that, do we ?

[CarolD]

The sooner you finish your formal
12 Steps the better.

That is when one starts living in recovery
IMO

I took 3 years and that was
because I got too hung up on 4.
Duh me!

[jimhere]

I take people through in about 3 or 4 weeks max, although I have done it over a weekend.

Everything you hear about "don't do your fourth step until you have a year," or "wait until you feel better," comes from treatment centers. I would have been feeling better on a barstool. Or how about the step-a-year club? Good thing Bill didn't do a step a year. Dr. Bob would have been screwed. Can you imagine Bill saying "Hey Bob, I'm only on my first step. I'll be out to Akron in about eleven years. By that time I'll have some self-esteem."

Come to think about it, we would all be screwed if that had been the case.
Jim

[SaTiT]

I can't imagine making amends to people I've hurted in one weekend
or a month...unless i was on speed or some crap...maybe it's just me.
Hell my drinking spreed lasted longer than a month.
My drinking career lasted for years and years.
And I didn't hit bottom over night.
Hell it took my a lot longer than a month to read the damn BB
and comprehend it.
Thast my ESH and I'm sticking to it.lol

Working the steps off the wall...you'll be off the wall.lmaf

First you do the steps
Then you work the steps
Then you live the steps

[IO Storm]

My goodness!

I have just been resting and the fog is clearing enough for

me to begin making amends to my mom and my BF while

I safely stick to 1 ,2, and 3.

First things first. To let the dust of the wreckage settle and

regain my destroyed health.

When I truly get to Step 8, it will be tough and will take

time.


Keep it simple, One day at a time, and .....



Easy Does it.


Love you.


IO

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by SaTiT

I can't imagine making amends to people I've hurted in one weekend
or a month...unless i was on speed or some crap...maybe it's just me.
Hell my drinking spreed lasted longer than a month.
My drinking career lasted for years and years.
And I didn't hit bottom over night.
Hell it took my a lot longer than a month to read the damn BB
and comprehend it.
Thast my ESH and I'm sticking to it.lol

Working the steps off the wall...you'll be off the wall.lmaf

First you do the steps
Then you work the steps
Then you live the steps

I didn't mean to imply that a person completes their amends in a weekend. But we do get going on them. Some amends take years, some can never be done, but it is the willingness that counts. If a person is willing, they are free, whether the amends can be done or not.

But, as I said, we do get going on them and vigorously commence to make this a way of living in 10, 11, & 12.
Jim

[barb dwyer]

While I think five years to finish the fourth step is a bit much ...

I also have to consider what HP wants.

I know for me, it was months before my past came clear enough for me to even REMEMBER anything for certain years. To stand sober in the present, and look back on the past, was like looking across a deep gorge with one of those aztec rope bridges ... and many many planks missing.
Each one of those big blank spots ... surrounded a trauma.

Had anyone 'pushed' me to hurry ... there's no telling what would have happened to me. Mentally, emotionally, physically - I was the most fragile I've ever been. I'd already tried suicide once - were I pushed into too much too fast - I'd have succeeded on the second try.

HP was looking out for me, though, and put a sponsor in my life who knew these things about me, and understood. She also knew she didn't 'have' to 'push' me to 'hurry up' ... she knew I'd handle each memory as it came back.

I'm not comfortable with either - pushing too hard, or waiting around.

If there's progress ... that's how it works; right?

[Barto]

I can't imagine trying to live sober without the steps. I was lucky enough to have a sponsor take me through them right away (and then again). I do 10, 11, & 12 the best I can everyday), and I go back through 4 through 9 about every year or two.

The book mentions only an hour delay between Steps 5 & 6 to refelect (unless we can’t find a trustworthy, closed mouth person with which to do step 5, but in this case, we keep ourselves at the ready, and do it at once upon finding such a person).

These treatment centers, certain therapists, and self proclaimed gurus have made this simple program into some kind of 12 headed dragon. Recovery is in the steps. I have been taught, and I believe, that if you are not working the steps (or taking them, if you prefer), you are not in "the program."

Sitting in meetings and listening to how it is done is okay, for a short time, but you can’t build a house by watching videos on building houses.

:sun:

[IO Storm]

Barb:

I am closely now where you were:

In the last nine months I've been clean. Miracle numero uno. Regained (most) of my health. (2) Respect of family (3) handling daily problems (4) Sharing on line (5)

Been working 1,2,and 3.

Next step is back to meetings and a sponsor. We'll take it from there. I don't feel so fragile now. Like Rocky, gettin' strong now.


Love,

IO

[barb dwyer]

hey IO -

I hear ya.
Only seven for me, but it wasn't long back in the Program, I was able to look and write as things came back to me.
(easy to say now that it's done of course)
but before ... nuh, uh.

I don't believe in 'laying around', but also know firsthand the danger in too much too fast.

Like I say, it has to be at the direction of HP.

[jimhere]

When I take the Third Step with someone, I cover the instructions for the Fourth Step and send them off to write. Usually I say something like "be back here in a week with it done, or this relationship will change."

A person will either write it or they won't. And I'm not too interested in hearing about why they can't write it. If they balk, the idea that we are engaged upon a life and death errand hasn't sunk in. It is my belief that if somesays they are having trouble with the Third Step, or the Second Step, or the Fourth Step, or amends, they are not. They haven't seen the First Step.
Jim

[savoy]

In Bill story he writes "WE made a list..."
He wasn't given directions and left to try and write it out himself, he had help.

When is an alkie ready ?
The Oldtimers say "as soon as your done pukin".!

Whilst Dr Bob made his amends in one long day, it was probably made easier by the fact that he'd lived many years in Akron and didn't leave a trail across 3 continents. I put a good dent in my amends in 1 day too.

I hear "canot be done" lives on willnot street, its just a matter of willingness.

[SaTiT]

mmmm....it took me over 3 months until I wanted to be alki.

My willinness is in direct proportion to the distance she is from me.
The farer she's away, the more I'm willing.

It took me over five years to be in the prosition of making other
amends. It took me an entire day just to drive all over the county.
Handing over $6000 to verious people and institutions wasn't the
easist thing in the world. The term money talks, BS walks had a
new meaning for me. I did feel less wieght draging me down, since
my wallet wasn't as heavy.

[GlassPrisoner]

Some amends take years, some can never be done, but it is the willingness that counts. If a person is willing, they are free, whether the amends can be done or not.

My sponsor said the exact same thing. And no. I haven't made all my amends, but I'm willing, and praying for the opportunity to present itself.

The book mentions only an hour delay between Steps 5 & 6 to reflect

And that it exactly what I did. I pulled down the BB off the shelf, and reviewed the first 5 propositions. I was ready, and willing. Immediately after that, I got on my knees and said the 7th step prayer.

[best]

Finish the steps?

You mean we get to finish them? *LOL*

I am the type of person that would rush in, do it all in a week but I found that the steps and how they are used grow as I grow. I use them daily (in short form) and I use them in all areas of life. I guess I could say that the steps have become a part of who I am and how I do things when I put proper thought to my actions.

[Debaucher]

Originally Posted by jimhere

When I take the Third Step with someone, I cover the instructions for the Fourth Step and send them off to write. Usually I say something like "be back here in a week with it done, or this relationship will change."

A person will either write it or they won't. And I'm not too interested in hearing about why they can't write it. If they balk, the idea that we are engaged upon a life and death errand hasn't sunk in. It is my belief that if somesays they are having trouble with the Third Step, or the Second Step, or the Fourth Step, or amends, they are not. They haven't seen the First Step.
Jim

Jim I respect your opinion and at some level try to agree with it BUT... I have to believe many people do have trouble with step 3. If one has "lost" faith in their life... had a belief in God and a specific religion and then abandoned it, there will be issue the person has to think through. I don't belief reconciling your belief in God as you want to understand him is always a straight forward, cut and dry issue. It can take reflection and dissection. Sometimes it takes time.

I believe as long as you are WORKING the steps you moving in the correct direction. Just because you don't show steady outward progress on the steps doesn't mean you aren't working at it. ok so I am 40 some days into this and it took me some time to get a sponsor and a couple weeks to reconcile step 3 and my issues with my lost faith. I am working step 4 and to me it is like an onion. If I would have settled on what I found at my first pass I wouldn't have found the layers beneath. I am working through it and will move on to step 5 when either my sponsor tells me to or I think I have ceased to derive benifit from working the 4rth...

So I agree failing to work a step Not Good... but working a step and just taking longer than somebody else... maybe what you need.

I don't write this to be argumentative... I write it because what you wrote didn't make sense to me... I hope by sharing this you will be able to see where I misunderstood you and help me understand your point better so that I may learn. I may not agree with you but I surely can learn something from understanding your belief.

Thank you...

[savoy]

Just a consideration..

"I am working step 4 and to me it is like an onion. "

I've heard that before, my own 4th step cut the onion in half.

Thats what its capable of but as you say everyone is different and anyway, its not a race.
I say take your time and just do it like your butts on fire.

[jimhere]

Hey Debaucher,
I don't believe there needs to be an arguement (from either point of view). Perhaps I can clarify my statements.

If a person has not experienced the First Step and clearly realized the hopelesness of their condition, they haven't recognized their need for God. To paraphrase chapter 3: "Once more, at certain times, the alcoholic has no mental defense against the first drink. Neither he nor any human power can provide that defense. That defense must come from a higher power." That comes at from the end of chapter 3, which is where the First Step ends in the book. Chapter 4 is the beginning of the Second Step.

There are bridges to cross here. The first one being this question of my need for power. Step 2 is more about willingness to believe. You start with whatever belief you have, however limited, and it grows from there. That is why it says "Came to believe..." Alcohol is called the great persuader here, not any human power. If a person can't cross that bridge, I don't take them past this point. It is pointless, and I'm not in the business of trying to convince anyone. It is a waste of time. Alcohol is a lot better "convincer" than I am. If a person has experienced the First Step, where else is there to go? The next bridge to cross is a choice: "Either God is everything, or God is nothing. God either is or God isn't. What's the choice to be?" Which, by the way is the only choice you'll ever have to make again for the rest of your life. It is about faith at this point.

Eventually this brings us to the ABC's. A being that I've realized that I am powerless over alcohol and that my life has become unmanageable, B being that I've realized that no human power is gonna relieve me of alcoholism, and C being that I sure hope God can if I seek him.

Which leads me to the first requirement. Realizing that my life run on self-will can hardly be successful. Which leads to the decision to take the Third Step. Here is how you WORK the Third Step. First you launch out on a vigorous course of action, the first being Step 4. Then 5, 6, and so on.

But if I am not conviced that I'm on a life or death errand, I'll screw around with the Fourth Step, and if I make it through that, I'll balk at amends. I've worked with a lot of alcoholics and I see it all the time. I've seen people die behind that unwillingness.

How you turn your will and life over is by writing inventory. The coming to believe happens in 5 through 9, and you deepen that relationship in 10, 11, & 12.
Jim

[SaTiT]

Even good alcohol needs time for brewing....imagain that.

[mike_mass]

It's a process...don't obsess about the time line.