Back to the 40's Style Meetings.

[Signal30]

Hello all. I was inquiring if any of you go to "Back to the 40's", style meetings? If so, would any of you be able to give me any information of how they are ran, how long a meeting lasts, any kind of basic discription of how they are structured? A fellow member was talking about these meetings, and they sounded interesting. He was told that these type of meetings have an excellent success rate. I was given a brief discription, and told my sponser about it. My sponser is a board member of a AA clubhouse I go to occasionally, and he said that if I can get some good information on how to run one, that I can get one of these type meeting started at the clubhouse.

If anyone knows of a link that may advise how to run one, please advise me. It would be much appreicated. There is one of these style meetings on the other side of town where I live, and I will try to make it to one.


Thanks!!!
Tom

[CarolD]

No Tom...Sorry!

This is the 1st time I have heard of
a 40's type of meeting.

Hmmm...

excellent success rate.

This conslution is based on ???

Do go and come back with details please.

[savoy]

Yes, I did it 1940's style, my sponsor was and still is old school.

What differentiates the 40's from now is the fellowship was mostly recovered.

So what happened?

In the 1950's , with the publishing of the 12x12, groups started to change from "here are the steps we took" to here are the steps we'll just study. There was no such thing as "step Study" prior to 1952.

A carefull reading of the Big Book shows a certain timeline for working the steps, its in the stories, Bill worked the steps with Ebby in Towns, 9 days sober.

Dr Bob met Bill several times over a course of a few weeks, got drunk in Atlanta, and then did his amends in one day.

Ernie T ( I think on page 291) describes going through the steps with Dr Bob in an afternoon.

Clarence Schneider (home brewmeister) often said "give me a willing drunk on Friday and I'll show you a recovered alcoholic on Monday"

None of which agrees with what I hear in the rooms today.

1940's style meetings in Cleveland, saw newcomers being taken through the steps in seminar fashion , in groups of 20-30 drunks all working the steps, recovery rates were twice as good as in NY.
They actually worked the steps in the meeting, inventory was written between meetings and step 5 was done with a sponsor after a meeting, sponsors barely had 1 month experience themselves due to the explosive growth rate which came about due to the publicity they were getting. All 12 steps were completed in 4 meetings.

See Dr Bob and the Oldtimers for more of the same, patients would get out of the alkie ward and come back the next week describing their experience in making amends.

Thats how they used to do it, I believe it still works best ,rather than the drag it out as long as possible approach.

Gerard

[CarolD]

Now I understand what the '40's type are.
Thanks Gerard...

[paulmh]

Isn't this the triple A approach? I've come across it on the internet. They pride themselves on being hardcore, no-nonsense, literalist. They make reference to the 75% recovery rates of the programme of the 40s rather than the single figures rates which are touted around now.

It sounds fascinating. Having been a product of the "drag it out as long as possible school" particularly! My only problem with it, when I've listened to the tapes of their practitioners and read their approach, is that they don't have what I want.

[Music]

40s style meeting, 50s style meeting or 2000s style meeting??? Meetings don't keep me sober. Not drinking, having a sponsor, working the steps, along with going to meetings keeps me sober. The decision I had to make was "did I want what AA has to offer, and what was I willing to do to get it." The answer was simple! Yes, and whatever it takes. I didn't know enough about the AA program at that time to be able to make an informed judgment about anything but that I wanted to not drink any more. I saw people around me who had been sober for a lot longer than I, and who seemed reasonably happy. That's all I need to see. These people had what I wanted and as far as I knew, AA had the answer. I didn't have a clue what was in front of me but I knew what was behind me and I didn't want any more of that.

As I see it, there have been a few changes since I came to AA. The AA program hasn't changed! There are still 12 steps. It's still suggested that a sponsor is helpful, that men work with men and women with women. What's changed is 90% of folks who come to AA today, do so by way of treatment centers, or the court system. Not that this is a bad thing, it takes what it takes. The problem is that people who come to AA from treatment(not all)seem to think they know more than they know. Get a sponsor?? I've to time for that. Write a fourth step and do a fifth?? I did that in treatment! Go to meetings?? Ah, one a week is fine! I've been sober for 30 days while in treatment so I can get involved in a relationship now! Oh, and don't think about telling a new person to sit down and listen, they might learn something. This is an insult to their intelligence and nowadays, mean spirited and lacking compassion. So, I don't worry about what kind of meetings I go to. I still call my sponsor once or twice a week and do my best to work the steps in my daily life, but above all, I don't pick up that first drink. If I learn anything at a meeting, it's what happens to people who don't go to meetings.

[Signal30]

Music, perhaps there was a misunderstanding, in my previous post. I was simply inquiring information on this type of meeting. I go to all types of meetings, and being that I'm 33, the modern structure of AA meetings have worked very well for me and I have no complaints. I also have a great sponser, that I call every day, I work the steps as teadeously, as well as maintaining a strong relationship with my higher power.
I have heard of these types of meetings, and have interest to see how they work, and if others would like to go to these at the clubhouse on my side of town. There are so many places in my area, where people have a large selection of meetings they can go to. From the discription of how this "back to basics" type meeting is formatted, it sounds like there is more emphisis on one on one step work with your sponser, during and after the meetings. From what I was told, it appears that they go through the steps quickly, however once the 12th step is complete, they start all over again. I see it as keeping with the 10th step. As we all know there can always be new resentments, and character defects that either come during recovery, or rise from the surface later on, when one in recovery finally can write it down, and tell another member or their sponser. This style sounds like it can help with that, being that all the steps are always repeated over, and over, and over.
Different strokes for different folks. Some people may not like it, others may see it as the kind of structure they need. These are still AA meetings, just old school.

This clubhouse I mentioned is having some financial troubles, (Landlord raised the rent). I am trying to brainstorm ideas to try to bring in more people. There is usually a decent amount of people who attend meetings there, but due to there being a large variety of other locations, the attendance has been slumping a little. ( It is getting a little better ). I would hate to see this clubhouse close it's doors.

Anyway, I still need more information. I'm going to try to check this type of meeting out next week. I'll let you know what I got out of it.


Tom

[Music]

Hi Tom,
There was no misunderstanding. I was making the point that meetings have changed because it seems like by the time people get to their first AA meeting, the methods used on hard core drunks right off the street, aren't used or aren't accepted like they used to be. That's not to say the old methods shouldn't be used or are the wrong methods. The failure rate is higher today than it used to be because the bottoms are higher and people don't seem to have as much to lose, or haven't lost as much as in the past.

I take my pigeons through the steps in one day. They start at 0800 and are usually finished and on their way home 10 to 12 hours later. I look at the steps this way. The first time through them, I'm "doing" the steps. From then on I'm "practicing" the steps and putting them to every day use. This is stated in the 12th step; "practice these principles in all our affairs." Nowhere in the Big Book does it mention doing the steps the "right" way, or only once. So, if when I'm doing the steps, I omit something because I forget, I can always go back and do that step again, as many times as is necessary. The important thing is that I "do" the steps as soon as possible.

Good luck on your mission. One sure thing is that the club will either stay open, or it won't. If the club has something people want and enjoy, it'll succeed. If not, it'll go the way of many clubs before.

[CarolD]

At todays meeting we had a brother and sister..
8 days sober...ask for a sponsor.

Another young person sober... 62 days
asked for a sponsor to do his Step 5
with as his former sponsor had moved.
He had his 4th Step with him.

After the meeting...I watched
as several members go up
to the 3 and begin talking.

AA is alive and doing very well it appears to me!
What kind of meeting was that?
Awesome!

[findingout]

Hey Tom,

One of my home groups has been running a "Back to Basics" program for the last year or so. It based on a book by P. Wally (you can find it on Amazon by searching for "Back To Basics"). The way it works is that each new person gets a temporary sponsor (or they can go through it with their permanent sponsor if they have one) and gets through all of the twelve steps in four meetings over four weeks. The meetings are lead by one or two people who have significant sobriety and have been through the "Back to Basics" program as temporary sponsors themselves.

We do it as an addition to our regular Monday night meeting and new people are encouraged to attend our Friday and Saturday night meetings while they are in the "Back to Basics" program. One of the reasons we started it was to give new people exposure to our meetings and that has worked out pretty well. I have also heard many people have positive things to say about their experience. For sure it does get people exposure to all of the steps in short order and the opportunity to a fourth and fifth step very early on in their sobriety.

[paulmh]

Yeah, I searched out the stuff I had a vague memory of reading about - it is called All Addictions Anonymous. Reminding myself of the website I found the book that findingout refers to.

[CarolD]

Ok... Now the light came on...Thanks Tony!

Yes...6 of my home group did go over to Atlanta
for 3 "Back to Basic" meeings.
We then decided at a group concious to
not add their 'style' to our meeting list.

[savoy]

Back to Basics , the book, came out of a research project Wally P was doing on integroup history. He came across an inventory checksheet which seemed to simplify an arduous task.
The more he delved into it , the more he learned of recovery rates of the past and wondered "wassup" with todays AA.

The difference with B2B and step study is with B2B you actually WORK the steps rather than "study" them (and analyse them).

Like Wally, I started studying AA history too, Clarences biography (the Home brewmeister character) is a powerfull read, its online actually.
www(remove this).aabibliography.com/tapes.html#clarence

Its a zip file, just open and start reading.

[yogurt75]

Paulmh wrote: "Having been a product of the "drag it out as long as possible school"

I wonder Paul, when you get really sick and go to a doctor do you ask your physician to give you medication that won't get you well for a really long time? Do you want an antibiotic to take for months and months while you still cough and sneeze and vomit?

The Back To Basics approach is based upon the Beginner's Classes originated by Clarence Snyder in the very early 1940's in Cleveland, Ohio. Wally took thses classes and the other pamphlets taken from the original Cleveland format and started attempting to get back to what worked so well in AA's formulative years. People went thru a series of indoctrinational classes introducing them to the Steps so that they too can recover and go one to help others. It worked so well that other parts of the US wrote and visited Cleveland and took these classes back home with them to start in their respective areas.

I found Clarence to be a wonderful role model for me. His biography on-line is a great read and gives a real picture of what it used to be like in the early days.

[yogurt75]

BTW Paulmh - All Addictions Anonymous is an entirely different program and fellowship and has nothing to do with the Beginner's Classes which, by the way is still AA and based upon how much of early AA carried THE message.

[Signal30]

Wow how deep did you have to dig to find this oldie message??? lol

Back to the 40's meetings are great. A step workshop some of are creating is loosely based on this style of meeting.


Tom

[Jeff070204]

This reminds me of something an old-timer once told me -- "You don't need a note from your mother to go straight to H-E-Double Hockeysticks!"

Another old-timer used to say, "You don't need a lesson in astrophysics to fondle a donkey!"

[CarolD]

Let's try to share our own
experiences and journy ...

Thanks Everyone

[mike_mass]

Why not just live in the present? I think any attempt to recreate a glorified past is the stuff of fantasy. Isn't that what some fundamentalists are already trying to accomplish?

[yogurt75]

Well Mike.... I am not going to argue your opinion. I DO live in the present but being a pragmatist I know that those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. I also like what those who founded AA had and the way they practiced it way better than what I see practiced in the rooms of AA today. I like what they had and I want to keep what I have. I don't ask you or anyone to change or alter your way of thinking or practicing what you believe to be your own recovery path - please respect my right to practice what I believe and don't put it down. That way of life has kept me sober for many years.

I would hope that everyone here has an EQUAL opportunity of sharing our own experience, strength and hope without retribution or being hit on the head as your emoticom so aptly illustrates.

[Jeff070204]

Who's Going To Acypaa?? It Starts In An Hour!!

Acy Acy Acy, Paa Paa Paa!!! Wooooooooooooooooooo!!!

[bballdad]

Tom,about your original post.Yes I have some experience with those meetings.
I have also attended a one day workshop with Wally P hosting and did the steps in one day.Then a friend,Bill and myself returned home and did about 24 of those workshops.They was very good.We had some very inspiring times,especially during the 11th step prayer and meditation time.All total,I have been thru the steps about 25 times that way.I believe the recovery rate at a Minn. group was 93% according to the AA Grapevine.

I have heard some interesting facts about those early beginners meetings,here are a few

higher than usual recovery rate

went thru the steps in one month usually-4 one hour meetings per week

many times they would go back the beginners meetings,as many times as 36 months in a row.

The Little Red Book has a few facts about these meetings,and the book itself was taken from notes from them

Dr Bob approved of them

many groups would not let you into their group untill you had gone thru them,and received a "card" hence you would then be a "card carrying member"