You are not allowed …..

[Wisconsin_Al]

Just wondering if others have had similar experience and how did you handle them?

“You are not allowed ….. “. Has anyone else heard these words used in AA? I have and it’s a hotspot for me and I can have a real knee-jerk reaction to this.

I have been told the following many times. I am not sure if this is unique to AA where I am or in general. But I have been told; You are not allowed to refuse Service work. You are not allowed to miss a home group meeting. You are not allowed to work the steps if you are taking meds. You are not allowed to mention drug use in an AA meeting. You are not allowed to read non conference approved literature in an AA meeting. You are not allowed to go off topic in a meeting ….. and other. And these are stated with an authoritative flair. In fact twice when I turned down a request to chair a meeting (I was uncomfortable at the time because of shyness) I was publicly chastised with the “You are not allowed to refuse Service work” speech which caused resentments the size of Texas.

Whatever happened to suggestions?

I stick to topics when in meetings; I prefer that it’s a better meeting for me when I do. But do not slap people down who go off topic, maybe they have a need?

I do service work but some service work I am not comfortable with. Why embarrass me in public?

I do not want a meeting dominated by other addictions better suited to other 12-step programs. But if someone needs to share a story that has a reference to drug or gambling or sex addictions and it’s relevant to the topic, please do not roll your eyes and sigh loudly as they share.

And don’t even get me started on the sponsors who brow beat people into going off meds without doctor’s advice.

Is this just my experience? Maybe I am overly sensitive or defiant? Maybe it’s me? hmmm acceptance needed maybe … nah not me (grin). But I have been running into many who want to “control” the meeting and those in them. And the alcoholic in me rebels and does not go quietly into the night.

[CarolD]

I think that is often how mew groups get started Al.

A ffew members decide the home group is not following AA
guidelines...and off they go to form another.

A group conscience meeting on these issues
can bring a tempory smoothing out
but it is up to the members how long it lasts.

[Doug]

I've never experienced anything like that around here, and I wouldn't take well if I did. Then I wouldn't return either. Imagine the impression that would give a new person....a new person who is already on edge about the whole thing anyway. Jeez, how very narrow minded.

[D-Licious]

Hey,

In my area the more intolerant folks split from the "mainstream" hub group, and have set up shop in another town, like Carol said happens sometimes. I was called out by one of their "leaders", publicly, at a Borders Bookstore in my town. He told me, in the cafe, that the mainstream group wasn't the "real AA", and that they didn't follow the traditions, etc. I disagreed, told him that intolerance wasn't my thing (pretty firmly), and asked him (firmly) to leave me alone.

So, he does what he does, and I do what I do. That was months ago. I got angry with him, but I apologized to him a couple weeks later, and we shook hands.

Some people need to hold on to it with a tighter grip than others. I just try to live and let live, as best I can.

-D

[Grasshopper]

Group conscience time.Reminding the group of traditions 2 and 3.Reminding them also,when at a meeting another wants to tell you,that you are not allowed,,,to,,ect,,etc..Each group IS,autonmous,.
Some are sicker than others.I was told,yup told,never to pray to God alone,by a member.Of course this has nothing to do with AA,but is her own personal belifes.I reminded her in soft tones,that AA does not endorce anyones belifes,nor opposes them.And that i dont need to follow her beliefs,but follow my own.Some have not let go of their controling ways.If i were to remind folks everytime that they were not following what AA is,and what it isnt,i,would, eventally have a resentments,and not paying attention to my own recovery.And helping others to follow whats in the BB.And the 12 steps...Be the example,-----

[laurie6781]

Many new meetings have been started on a resentment, lol.

As to the "You are not allowed to................" Try this, it worked for me. I became a BROKEN RECORD every time some said "you are not allow to (whatever)" I wold politely look at them and ask "and where in the first 164 pages of the BB does it say that?" rofl and watch them stammer and stutter and I would walk away.

Pretty soon, very few and then none used the phrase "you are not allowed" around me, lol. I chose to stick with the "winners" not the AA Nazi's lol.

If your resentment gets real bad, buy a $10 coffee pot at Family Dollar Store and start another meeting, roflmao.

No Al you are not being overly sensitive. Words and suggestions that are 'passed down' from person to person instead of being taken directly from the prescribed text can become twisted.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

[paulmh]

Wow Al, that's a real eye opener! I don't remember ever encountering that, can you can be assured I would bristle myself!

I do have a couple of meetings where there are people who, although they've got lots of years, seem to really need authority, the authority that they think comes with the Programme. They don't have what I want, so I stay away.

[Golfman]

Al,

I can only add that there must be other AA meetings in Appleton. From what you describe, these folks seem to be on an ego trip of some sort. I was always good at making rules and enforcing them. The problem was that after a while, there were no people left to follow the rules.

[miss communicat]

great thread, al.

in another thread on this forum by carold, she quotes a passage in the bb, which refers to intolerance and condemnation as "stupidity".

i thought that directness was refreshing, mainly because it validated my sense of liberal intelligence, lol,....

but. i hear ya. i am up against this stuff in my local aa all the time. there are lots of bulldozers and know-it-alls who dont have a clue about the fact that aa is a program of attraction, not promotion (or worse; spoon feeding with a shovel).

it is important to me that i dont get resentments towards them, so i work more on acceptance.

i accept them as they are, but limit my exposure to them and carry on with my life without having them in it other than seeing them at meetings.

i guess what im saying, is that i dont feel that i always must have the last word, be right, or agree with anything anybody else tells me just because they are sober in aa. i know who i am and i know what is right for me today.

i have gained this level of security with myself as a direct result of being sober, being in aa, and working the steps.

so,

take what you need
and
leave the rest.

it works for me....

[Barto]

Originally Posted by Wisconsin_Al

You are not allowed to refuse Service work. You are not allowed to miss a home group meeting. You are not allowed to work the steps if you are taking meds. You are not allowed to mention drug use in an AA meeting. You are not allowed to read non conference approved literature in an AA meeting. You are not allowed to go off topic in a meeting … “You are not allowed to refuse Service work”...

Most of these directives are utter nonsense, and none are true as stated. They are all either covered in the Big Book or in the “World Services” approved literature (not that this is the only source that may be read at meetings), or they are conspicuously absent from either for good reason. I have heard some of these things and I believe they are put at issue by those not working “the program” (aka taking the steps), or simply to have fun with friends (which is a good thing if you are on the inside).

The meds issue is alluded to in the book and covered more thoroughly in later “conference” approved literature, which I feel are the best places to start when I want to get to the bottom of an AA issue. Basically, there is nothing wrong with taking doctor prescribed meds and taking the steps. In fact doing both simultaneously may be necessary for many in order for them to find recovery.

I could write on and on about this, but I won’t. These kinds of statements are the very reason every AA member should read the book and the other literature for himself.

However, I will state that, as has already been stated, the basic text for AA is the first 164 pages of the Big Book, which includes by reference the appendices (where the 12 traditions may be found). These should arm you with enough ammunition to fend off any know-it-all know-nothing for now.

Caveat, I have found it is always wise to “fend off” in a loving way. I like to ask a question like, “so, how does this fit in with the ________ tradition? I also like Laurie’s approach. “Do remember where it states that in the book? I’d like to look it up for future reference.”

Tradition 2. “For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority – a LOVING God as he may express himself in OUR group conscious. Our leaders are but trusted servants; THEY DO NOT GOVERN.” …

Tradition 3. “The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.”

Tradition 5. “Each group has but one primary purpose, to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.”

There are also nine more traditions which I think every AA member should be somewhat familiar with.

So, basically, an individual may do anything he wants in AA (except refuse membership to anyone with a desire to stop drinking). And a group may allow or disallow anything it wants (except refuse membership to anyone with a desire to stop drinking), subject to a LOVING God as he expresses himself in our group conscience). You may even drink if you are willing to pay the price (and even if you are not willing, you may pay anyway).

So, a group may vote to disallow talk of things like drugs (even though I doubt a loving God would). Some do, some don’t. This is a blessing. It is a clear indicator as to whether the group is right for you. But if a group has taken no group conscience, and regarding AA as a whole, these “you are not allowed to” statements are incorrect.

That said, making regular meetings benefits me as well as those who count on me to be there. I think attending regular meetings is an important commitment. But service is the key activity to recovery. So, if I can be of service elsewhere, that may trump even a regular meeting in my book. Also family commitments may trump service requests, as is alluded to in the Big Book. But balance is advisable here. Meetings are a great place to be of service, to carry the message (and to receive it in the beginning). And there may be no family for the alcoholic who neglects his program.

Please excuse my dogmatic references to God as a he, and my use of masculine references.

[Missymae737]

Oh yes! I have become defensive at some meetings. I do not like the know it alls in any area of life, or the law enforcers!

BUT, I have learned that some of the like have good things to teach us so, I TAKE WHAT I NEED AND LEAVE THE REST!

[Slowbriety]

Originally Posted by Barto

Tradition 2. “For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority – a LOVING God as he may express himself in OUR group conscious. Our leaders are but trusted servants; THEY DO NOT GOVERN.” …

Also, tradition 12 might help out.

[fraankie]

everything is a suggestion
90 and 90
service
phone calls
etc

i do know others
and, i did so for a long time
who never refuse
but
that is up to them


best
fraankie

[Signal30]

I sense another AA police issue.

[concolor1]

Over the years always seem to raise their obnoxious heads repeatedly from time to time. Thank god the argument over "dual dependencies" has probably run its course, although they still read that "please confine your discussion as they relate to alcohol" in my home group. And I still identify myself as "My name is -----, and I'm an alcoholic and drug addict."

The story is instructive since I was working an adolescent outpatient rehab years ago when some of the kids there hit that meeting becaues it was close by. They weren't too warmly received, and the next week when I heard about it, I got up to the podium and asked if anyone knew what Dr. Bob had said on the subject (everyone knows what Bill said).

I got to educate them on that one, and then I added if they didn't think they were alcoholics they should go get some drugs and find out (one of the "gurus" of the group always used that line on people who were unsure of their alcoholism) . . . Later that night another much-loved old-timer admitted to having a real dexadrine problem from his drinking days, and somebody else quipped, "Gee, George, you mean you were a speed freak?"

And the problem kind of melted away . . .

There are a couple of rules I like, like the "one year--or more--sobriety" for a group secretary who might handle funds. And it's not that there aren't plenty who can't do the job with less, it's that it isn't fair to hang that one on someone new who can't . . . Abconding with group funds is a minor misdemeanor epidemic in the Fellowship; the tragedy is when someone gets drunk over the guilt from that experience . . . Time, at least, gives them a chance to bring their recovery programs into play and correct the wrong . . .

Right now, a meeting I'm going to be attending--and not just because I have young kids--just added a "baby-sitter" service. Apparently, somebody--who doesn't have kids--jumped on a young mother who was sorely in need of a meeting because she had a crying child. I was apalled when I heard the story, and I'm happy at the solution brought forth.

Really, though, the only hard-and-fast rule that needs to be is "no alcohol servedin meetings." Everything else is negotiable, but our disease results in a lot of arrested emotional development that follows us way into sobriety.

[nolonger]

hiya Al. Nice post.

I can't say I've remotely come across so much intolerance and obnoxious behavior as that (is there something in the water up there?), but I admire your restraint. I think I'd have thrown something at the person D-licious mentions - my coffee, or a chair. I love all the differences between people and approaches in AA, for example about Higher Powers and all. But if there's one thing that drives me up the wall it's people being excluded or silenced.

It seems quite a few of the worlds bullies and authoritarian busybodies are powerless over alcohol. I hope they stay powerless over me too.:o)

[Tazman53]

I only have 5 months sober and I doubt if I would have that if I hit a meeting or meetings like that early in my sobriety.

The last (almost typed a curse word!) thing I wanted to hear out of anyone anywhere early on was "You have to"!!!! I would be very tempted to ask them to take off their old timers hats and put on a newbies hat and see how they view this stuff!

I think Laurie said it best though, because what she said would quiet down the biggest BB Natzi!

[jimhere]

One of the great freedoms I have come to realize is that I don't have to do anything I don't want to do and I don't need to compel anyone else to have to do anything that they don't want to do. Or to do what I want them to.

On a group level, my group has a conscience on several different things. It is sort of an unspoken group conscience that we don't use a lot of profanity. Or that we don't get up and walk in front of anyone else if they are speaking. This unspoken conscience is among our home group members, but we don't tell anyone else that they are not allowed to cuss ( although some of our more uptight members start to squirm when some one lets loose with a four letter word, especially one that starts with F) or get up and walk in front of someone else when they're talking.

One thing I've noticed though. After a while, non-group members who come to our meeting regularly start to follow our lead. It does make for a good meeting. I think it is nice when we practice consideration for one another.
Jim

[SaTiT]

Just remember we are dealing with sick peaple and some of us
are sicker than others. And after all it is ESH.
I had a symilar encounter.
By the grace of god some older timers did interventions.

Being early in recovery but it was time to grow or i was well enough.
Hearing all of the myths (BS). I actaully starting reading the Big book
just to sort things out or find out the truth for myself.

But I wasn't that well.lmaf
I had a taste of AA and AA had a taste of me.
I thought that i had really , really done it.
AA actaully called cops on me.
My sponsor put my mind to rest. He assured me i wasn't
the first and beside i didn't throw stuff like he did.

I was only reponsible of the sunday morning meeting. I can't help it
if others don't do thier part during the week days . Peaple should be
greatful when I open the doors during the week. But then again we
are dealing with sick peaple. i got blame for meetings not being open
during the week ..MMMmm...F-it....they can have the key back, i don't
need stress.lmaf mmm...maybe i shouldn't have thrown the key with
velocity attached.lol

And of course all kinds of old farts started showing up to meetings
again.lmaf

i love my family.lol

allow yourself to live and let live