Want to do steps but sponsor concerned about medication

[drugeffects]

Hi all,

I am in recovery and a member of AA. I haven't had a drink since September 17 2005. I haven't had an illegal drug since 31st Dec 1997. I am currently on prescription Benzos [Clonazepam (Klonopin/Rivotril/Paxam)] and Anti-depressants [SNRI (Effexor)]. I am currently ramping down on my Benzos and will be off them by end of March 2007. I am on a reasonably high dose of ADs.

My problem is that I have been in AA for 1 year and 4 months, and done a lot of study of the big book. I have started doing the steps (I think I know steps 1,2 and 3 quite well) and asked my sponsor to move forward with doing steps 3 and above.
I met with him last night, and he has effectively tied by progression in the steps to me providing details on what is the map/plan (diagnosis/prognosis) for anti-depressants (assuming I get off the benzos). My sponsor has never taken medication and doesn't seem to believe in (mind altering) medication although he states that he suffers from symptoms of anxiety and depression. He has been sober for 5 years. He believes that having a clear mind (free from medication) is a requisite for doing the steps, as the problem (of the alcoholic) is in the mind, and if I am on medication then it's not the real me.

My frustration is that I recently travelled and had a major compulsion to drink, and managed to not pick up through staying close to the fellowship and other members. However, I see the 12 steps as key to my recovery and maintaining my sobriety. I feel that if the steps are postponed (timeframe to be determined) that I am jeopardising my sobriety.

I would appreciate all constructive thoughts on how one should handle this dilemma.

Jamie

[laurie6781]

Hey Drug Effects WELCOME to SR! I am so glad you found us.

As to your questions. The BB tells us that WE ARE NOT DOCTORS and sometimes 'professional' help is needed.

I have to disagree with your sponsor. Many of us, sober many years, HAVE TO TAKE certain medications to be able to live, and yes that includes Anti Ds.

Yes there are people in recovery like your sponsor that believe as he does. However, that is JUST HIS OPINION. Please listen to your doctor. Take your Anti Ds as prescribed. Obviously your sponsor has never been in the Abyss. Has not felt the darkness closing in around him, and felt like it would never go away.

It might be time to find a different sponsor, that has been where you are now.

My PERSONAL OPINION is if you feel ready to work on Step 4 then go for it!!!

I have many ODAATs now, and yes I am on an Anti D. It took a long time and many trials and errors for my physc doc to find the one that would work for me, and although it was a very trying time (over 4 years of my sobriety) I am so glad I stuck with it.

Oh and btw if you ask this question in an AA meeting you will get as many opinions as there are members there at the moment, roflmao.

I prefer to live my life by the BB and have no problem suggesting a sponsee seek professional help when it seems appropriate.

WE ARE NOT DOCTORS.

J M H O

Again, welcome to SR. Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing, we do care!!!

Love and hugs,

[eire rose]

Hi Jamie,

I would look for a new sponsor.

A sponsor's work is to guide you through the steps, period. It is none of his business what medication you are taking. If you are clean with your dr who prescribed them and honestly know yourself that you are not abusing them that is enough.


The issue of medication is a grey area in AA, everyone has an opinion about it. Personally I would keep your medical issues between you and your dr, work the steps with someone else.

I have heard of this coming up for many people and I really think its a lot of control on the sponsor's part.

Love, Rose

[Sheryl85]

I totally agree with what has been said here. I would really wonder about any sponsor who stood in the way of another member's growth over this issue especially if they were not a qualified medical professional. This seems to be such a touchy issue with some people.

Good luck. Let us know how this is working out for you.

[Tazman53]

Drug effects ask your sponsor to read page 133 lines 11-16!

But this does not mean that we disregard human health measures. God has abundantly supplied this world with fine doctors, psychologist, and practicioners of various kinds. Do not hesitate to take your health problems to such persons. Most of them give freely of themselves, that their fellows may enjoy sound minds and bodies. Try to remember that God has wrought miracles among us, we should never belittle a good doctor or pschiatrist. Their services are often indispensible in treating a newcomer and following his case afterwards.

If he beleives what the BB says he can not dispute this and the 2 of you can move forward, if he can not and I was in your shoes I would find another sponsor.

BTW way the quote is not my opinion, it is spelled out in the BB, your sponsor or any one else who says that being on ADs is not being sober needs to read the BB a little closer.

[UnusedPortion]

I have 5 months in AA. I can see why a sponsor would have a problem with benzo's or any drug that could be potentially abused. But I think that his view of anti-depressants might stem from either ignorance or a bad experience with the wrong one. I believe mood altering and mind altering drugs are different. I think people sometimes need help to BE the real them. I couldn't see how this issue could affect the first three steps at all. I think you should come to a pretty good feeling about what to do in working steps 2and 3. I worked on the first two steps everyday before I got a sponsor and formalized having done them. I'd start those first 2 at least and if he doesn't want to check them off the list then let him feel that way. You have to have a healthy boundary about this. There are meetings where people discuss this very issue called P-11, and sharing in one could help you find your way.

[CarolD]

Hi and Welcome to SR Jamie!

My doctor and I plan my medical treatment
not anyone else.

Take care

[Golfman]

Jamie,

I take Klonopin, Trazadone, and Effexor every day. I suffer from depression. Those who don't know the pain and suffering associated with depression do not understand. Just like the non-alcoholic will never understand why we drank like we did.

Having had quite a few 24 hours I'd ask your sponsor to find the page in the BB that says you can't take these drugs if you're trying to get sober. He won't be able to find it because it's not there. When regulated by a competent Dr., these drugs save lives. IMHO, if your sponsor requires that you get off these meds in order to move forward in the program, fire him/her.

[jimhere]

On second thought-my belief is that you won't be able to take the steps effectively if you are suffering from depression. Guess what alcoholics do when they are depressed? More often than not, they drink. Or I've known people, who although they were sober, suffered from untreated depression. They did worse than drink-they committed the supreme sacrifice. Left untreated, depression is just as deadly as alcoholism. At the least it will hinder your sobriety. So by all means, treat your depression.

I'll reiterate something I said another thread of a similiar theme. It is my reply to busybodies in AA who want to tell me how to run my life.
"I'm not really interested in your opinion of an experience you've never had."
Jim

[GlassPrisoner]

I told my sponsor, when doing my 5th step, that I though my ex wife was faking her bi-polar symptoms.

He said to me " How many years medical school do you have ? Where's your degree ?"

[barb dwyer]

I dunno, man -

to me, there's a difference between 'mind altering' drugs and 'brain chemistry stabilizing' drugs.

the mind ... is not the brain. one receives the thoughts .. the other is the Thinker of the thoughts.

I'm no doctor, by any stretch of anyone's imagination. Maybe it is time to seek another sponsor. (?) Maybe the sponsor you have knows of another who DOES have experience with this type of condition?

[drugeffects]

Hi Tazman,

Thanks very much for pointing that section out. I wasn't aware how clearly it is actually spelled out.
Despite the specific information in the BB, it's interesting that there is still this "pills for dills" sentiment in some members of AA. I think that my sponsor is ignorant i.e. I just don't think he understands the concept that prescription medication is required for some people.

Thanks again,

Jamie

[drugeffects]

Hi all,

I didn't mean to post that reply above (I thought I was sending a personal message). Firstly thanks to ALL of you for your replies and suggestions, including one personal reply.

An update from today after speaking to my Psychiatrist (who also happens to be a member of AA):
- With medication, he believes in the minimum dose for the minimum duration
- Wrt benzos, he understands why I was prescribed these for my medical condition of anxiety
- He can see why "some" people see a crossover (or similarity) between benzos and alcohol.
- The plan between Dr and I is to be off them (2 weeks at a time) within approximately 2 months. fortnightly assesments to check that all is ok, and if there are problems I can put the taper down on hold until I am ready to continue the taper. NB: For anyone who is interested in reducing their benzos, the main things I have put in place in my reduction has been - exercise, caffeine reduction (that hurts), sugar reduction (and fortunately I wasn't drinking and smoking at the time). Combined with seeing the Psychiatrist who showed me some relaxation techniques (so far so good ODAAT!!).
- After finishing the benzo reduction he will keep me on the depression medication for a stability period of AT LEAST 3 months. What he said is that, basically, you don't screw around with medication and after coming off benzos, my mind needs to re-stabilise.
- I said that I am on the maximum RDI (of EFFEXOR) and he asked "Is it hurting you?" "No" I said. "So we'll leave you on that". He said some people take years to get their medication levels right (as mentioned by laurie).
- He said that it takes the brain up to 5 years to recover from alcohol. The good news is that the brain is "plastic" and can effectively regrow. (Don't quote me on any of this)
So my plan
- Whilst tapering off the benzos I will be working steps 1,2, and 3
- After getting off the benzos I plan to continue working the steps (3 and onwards!!!).
- I have heeded the majority of the group advice which is to only share my medical issues with my Dr in future. There are too many uninformed people out there (In and out of AA).
- I will have a talk to my sponsor and let him know the situation (and refer him to page 133) and that I don't wish to discuss my medication further with him (as it his none of his business)
- With regards to the steps, to me (and as suggested by others), it is of utmost importance to move forward promptly with actions (As a fellow AA member once said to me, the BB doesn't say to do Step 3 then wait. BB Page 63, after completing step 3 "Next we launched out on a course of vigrous action")
- I am yet to make a decision on whether I will keep my sponsor or not

Will keep you posted.

Cheers,

Jamie

[laurie6781]

Jamie I am so glad you spoke with your physc dr about this and also that your dr is in AA!!!! Mine was also in AA and sober many years until her demise.

Sounds to me like you have an excellent plan.

Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing, we do care a lot!!!!!

love and hugs,

[Tazman53]

Jamie "Pills for Dills" is one I haven't heard yet, I have heard that there are some Old Timers that are against ADs and the like, I have a feeling that it is a combination of being from the old school and not taking the time to learn how far medicine has come. In the days when some of these guys got sober the only thing probably available was valium which has a bad rap.

Glad to hear your shrink is in AA, might make a good sponsor, kill 2 birds with one stone!!! I am kidding on that part, I do not feel that it would be right for your shrink to be your sponsor, there are some lines there that probably should not be crossed.

[fraankie]

Benzos [Clonazepam (Klonopin/Rivotril/Paxam)] and Anti-depressants [SNRI (Effexor)]

yo, bro
that's heavy stuff
you may need it
or you may be a guinea pig
once on this stuff
the doc is suppose to take you off in a year or so gradually

reality is
it's better to just keep the guy in a stupor

beware
heavy side effects
including aniexty, loss / gain of weight
no appetite
sudden death

if i were you
go to the physician's desk reference
check side effects
even on the web


do a pro / con thing
make an informed decision
get off them or stay on

i used to duje it out with my psyche
"if you are doping me up on meds
why can't i drink instead"



best
fraankie

ps
a poll is worthless
as there is no statistical reference for it here

[Golfman]

Fraankie,

Be careful about the advice you give. I've been taking Klonopin and Effexor for years now. I'm not in a stupor all the time. I'm productive and healthy. I care about other people more than I care about myself. I've not suffered any of the side effects you mentioned. You can argue all you want with your psyche, but for many people these meds are a lifesaver.

[Barto]

I not only work the steps, but I am sponsoring while taking Xanax as prescribed. Since you asked for opinions, (“poll”), mine is that you find a new sponsor. The steps are the program of AA. AA saves lives. I can’t believe that a responsible AA member would want you to wait to take them if you are ready.

I posted a question on this forum to get feed back from the AA members that frequent this website. It was a bit different than yours. I wanted opinions as to whether I should change my sobriety date over taking the Xanax. I was pleasantly surprised to find, not only were the majority here very supportive, but none here were in favor of me changing my date because of taking prescribed meds.

Further, AA’s official opinion is spelled out clearly in the “World Services” approved pamphlet entitled “The AA Member – Medications and Other Drugs.” It talks about tranquilizers like Klonopin and about antidepressants. Basically, being honest with yourself and a well informed doctor is the key. You may want to read it. It is one of those freebees.

In my case, I suspect that the meds are temporary, but without the 12 steps in my life, I am almost certain the meds would become permanent and that my dosage would increase significantly.

[TexasDumb]

Barto,

How are doing today????

Good, I hope.....

Me, I am plugging along quite well it seems...hope it's not the "calm before the storm." Ha.

I am playing like it is, so I'll be ready to fight the "Why Not" monster when/if it rears it's sneaky voice....

See ya on another post,

[Wisconsin_Al]

My 2-cents for what its worth. AA is part of the solution not the entire solution. We (me) need help outside of AA from family, friends, ministers, doctors and therapist. And if I am prescribed medication and understand why I am taking it then I take it.

Meds are between me, my doctor and my HP. I do not feel it is the place of AA to replace this and not the role of anyone in AA to moderate this for another.

As always there are bad doctors along with good doctors, just like there are bad sponsors and good sponsors. It is your final decision if you have a good or bad one.

[501]

Taking most Anti-deps is not like chewing up a couple of oxy's. There is no rush or sensation. It takes weeks for most to start to working. We have a guy like your sponsor in our home group. When I first got sober, I would not take my meds. I relapsed. Part of my recovery is to accept I have to take my meds. Next time your sponsor has a root canal, ask if he did it without Novacaine.

[TexasDumb]

501,

GOOD ONE!

May you always break par! Your golf cart looks a "racing machine."

You remember what Lee Trevino (the happy Tex-Mex golfer from years ago) used to say...."Dogs chasing cars, and pros making pars....neither one pays!"

I always thought that was hilarious. 'Course Trevino was a nut.

He said his first round of golf was like a "round of trespassing."
He used to sneak onto a golf course near his home in Dallas and play a few holes. He finally got caught by the head pro who realized that the boy had TALENT... The rest is history....


He used to bet good golfers he could beat them, and he'd only use a coke bottle on a string. Imagine that, if you will.

Guess who would win????? And later on the tour and senior's tour also.

Him and Chi Chi used to crack me up.

Nobody wanted to be paired up with Trevino 'cause he non-stopped talked through the whole round...Did not bother him, but messed everyone else's concentration up.

Hope you have a good day,

I am

[Barto]

Originally Posted by TexasDumb

Barto,

How are doing today????

Good, I hope.....

I PM'd you TD, so as not to hijack the thread.

[Barto]

I just wanted to echo what someone else already said to you in this post: Go very slow when tapering off Klonopin. This can be a very difficult taper for some of us. I have had personal experience with Klonopin. I think it is in a class by itself. I won’t carry on with my bad experience here. Yours may be very different. But if you wind up in trouble, there are some good threads in the “substance abuse” section regarding benzo withdrawal.

That said, I am no doctor. I am just sharing some of my experience. I would advise you, if I may, to communicate frequently with your doctor if you feel he or she is good. One of my doctors was in AA, too, which helped a lot, and the others were well informed. Good luck, and take those steps by hook or by crook!

[JD86]

i think it is simple........... it is about soul searching....... you (we) know in our heart of hearts....if we are taking meds to escape or if we are abusing them....... or taking them for a legitimate reason......

ask the man in the mirror.......... he knows



jd
nj
sober 20 yrs this month