Stealing from AA

[seekingpeace4me]

I was at a meeting recently where someone stole money from the basket. The man sitting next to him was determined that the money be returned and words were exchanged during the meeting. The two men finally went outside and the admitted theif refused to give the money back and yelled at the AA group member. There was an altercation but someone started sharing and the meeting finally started. There was much discussion about the incident. Some people thought that if the man needed the twenty, why not let him keep it. Some wanted to call the police. Some thought the man should be invited back to the meeting. I thought the man had a need but stealing from the collection plate wasn't cool, as it appears he does this regularly. The theif ended up calling the police as he felt the AA members had roughed him up, even though he did end up with a twenty, just not the one he stole. The group thought didn't seem together and I just wondered what would have happened at other meetings.

[michski]

wow.. never seen that happen but I'm not surprised. Sounds to me like this guy is looking for another (maybe new) bottom. I believe I would vote to accomodate him and call the police. The chit has to stop somewhere.

[fraankie]

yeah, newver seen that
but
serenity is the key
learn from the mistake
and
at some groups here
they have someone sort of follow the basket
from row to row


best
fraankie

[Sugah]

The twelve concepts address this. Whether or not he stole, those faithful to the traditions would be bound to welcome him back, so long as he has a desire to stop drinking. Doesn't mean he has to have stopped drinking. Doesn't mean he has to give the twenty back. We are not punitive. If you've got a service manual lying around, it's all there in the back.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[CarolD]

My 1st thought was

"Gee. our basket only has ones!"

I also find it odd that the basket was
passed before the meeting started.

I've been going to AA meeting for 22 years
and have never seen this situation.

Sugah is on target with her reply.

[Chance]

I have seen this happen more than once. Here, when the basket is passed we ask that you give if you can. We also don't announce it, however if you really need money, it is OK to take it out. This is not to say that if you want to drink take it out, heck we have people here that will give you a 20 if you say that you want to drink, they don't want to deprive you. I guess the thing about it is, who are we? Most of us have come from backgrounds that are not really moral anyways.

I know for me I have had to ask for help before, of course the 7th tradition says that we are self supporting also. Sometimes this doesn't just have to do with putting a dollar or two in the basket, it involves cleaning ashtrays, dumping garbage, hanging out after the meetings, . So I guess AA continues to ........

Love Vic

[Leo_the_Cat]

Originally Posted by fraankie

yeah, newver seen that
but
serenity is the key
learn from the mistake
and
at some groups here
they have someone sort of follow the basket
from row to row


best
fraankie

I've been to many meetings where someone walks around the room with the basket never letting go of it. Their experience may have shown that this is what needed to be done at those meetings.

[nogard]

I always have to look carefully at me when I find myself in a drama no matter that these days I may well be in the "right"

Kevin

[Irish Virus]

An interesting story. I'm kind of curious as to who the thief really is. Maybe
he is just a two-bit con man who hits AA meetings for a quick buck, or the
poor soul needed the money to feed his starving children at home.

I've never seen a brawl or cops at an AA meeting before, but I'm sure it
has happened plenty of times as a result of old resentments stemming from a bar fight, gang members still rivals, men fighting over women, ect...

[barb dwyer]

Carol wrote:
"Gee. our basket only has ones!"

FOTFLOL!

Us, too!

[Grasshopper]

You say that the group thoughts, didnt seem together.Here,s where the problem lies,as im seeing it.Have another group conscience meeting.Its not what the fellow, is doing,taking money,thats,the issue,although it,may, look like it.Its only part of the problem.The other part of the issue,is,Its members,himming and hawwing.on what to do.Make a group decisions on this,.To get it together,and make decisons,on this issue.Then everyone,even this fellow will know what the group has decided.In making this decision,keep in mind our primary purpose.

[FriendofBill]

A member here in Miami burned down half of the room once...arson is a crime, just as stealing is.

The group voted to ban him from the room, but not from AA. Plenty of other rooms to go to. Welcoming him back with open arms could lead to burning down the rest of the room, or worse. Every group is autonomous, and also must protect themselves and others who attend.

Oh ya, and also must not accept unacceptable behavior...even if it is in a 12 step fellowship.

[CarolD]

Once upon a time..in a city by a river...
the manager of our Alano Club
fled with a weeks cash from all the meetings.

The money was replaced from the prudent reserve
and the bills got paid. No punitive action was taken.

A new manager was elected, a different system put in place
and the Club continued to grow.

2 months later..the Club got a call from
manager #1...wanting us to wire a ticket so he
could fly back from Ca.

We did NOT send a ticket!!

[jlo34]

This definitely falls into the traditions and concepts of AA, as well as the group consciounce.

When I started attending AA it was always said have a buck, please donate it, need a buck, please take it. And it was meant.

The traditions and the concepts are what keeps AA GROUPS alive. The steps are what keeps ME alive. We've had many instances where someone took the funds and left. Never prosecuted because that is against our traditions. Amazingly, nearly every cent that has ever been taken has eventually been repaid. Guilty feelings? We've continued and we've survived. As far as I know we haven't had anyone take large amounts of money out of the basket...I doubt we'd be too upset about it though. I don't know. We are a really close knit group, who welcomes and loves everyone through our doors (the meetings I go to!). I guess my perspective today would be that perhaps he needed the money to help write his lead, feed himself, his family, who knows. Apparently a person desperate enough to take money out of an AA basket needs the money more than I. Perhaps one of these times he'll stick around to hear the message. Perhaps he's humiliated to NEED to do that? I don't know. Only God and he knows the real reasons. It's not my place to judge nor incriminate. It is my place to help him stay sober and live a sober life if he chooses to want AA though. Can I do that effectively if my perspective is that he is a thief? Haven't I been a thief as well? Haven't people forgiven me? Can I forgive this poor soul and pray for him? When he walks through the doors and wants sobriety, will I be able to treat him fairly without bias? Where am I spiritually if I'm judging and prosecuting someone else...am I so good that I can't place myself in this person's shoes?

Those would be questions I think I would need to ask myself to stay within my own spiritual program. If he's meant to get into legal trouble...he will.

Just my view...Thanks for sharing, good topic.
Jen

[BigSis]

A group I was attending had a member leave with all the groups money- about $300.

You know what the FUNNY part was? This story came out when I suggested at a business meeting that we open a not-for-profit bank account with two signatures on it for our group funds (which were going home with the treasurer each week).

This story was presented as the REASON to not have a bank account?!!! That instead, the money needed to be kept by a "trusted, long-term" member. The group conscience went along with "the way it has been".

This particular group has NEVER used the traditions and can't figure out what they are for... I finally took my sponsor's advice and stopped supporting their group. It was sick in many ways... and I was having trouble not getting sucked into some warring and gossip.

...bleaH!

[Sugah]

There is also the concept of a "prudent reserve" which is designed to keep groups poor. We give away (to district, area and GSO entities) what we don't need to survive, and then we don't end up sitting on much money at all. Some groups figure their prudent reserve as two months' rent. Others set it at $100. There are pamphlets available on self-support, where the "buck in the basket" should go, and they educate our groups on the different service levels and why we need to support them (because, in a nut shell, it's supporting AA as a whole). It's a good topic for a group conscience meeting.

The reaction from the oldtimers around here when a treasurer makes off with more than a "prudent reserve" from a group is that the group made it possible by sitting on that amount of money. There is little sympathy for a group, and seldom is the "guilty party" (the treasurer) taken to task.

I know this thread started with the lifting of a twenty from the basket, but it's a good place to discuss the whole issue of self-support and responsibility. This is a good thing!

Peace & Love,
Sugah