pattyj

I have been sober for almost 4 years now and still have trouble dealing with my alcoholic mother.
I won't go into too much detail but the last family vacation I went on was two years ago to Hawaii for new year's. My mother was drunk the entire time, emotionally abusive, making sure to let us know that "this is her vacation too." I have been able to talk way out of two family vacations since then and even told my mom right after Hawaii that I wouldn't go on a trip with her ever again.
Two years have passed and she's trying to guilt me into going on a trip next year around Christmas, telling me that she'll plan it around my work and school schedule. I already told her I didn't think i could go but I don't have the balls to tell her why again. She is a narcissist and alcoholic and I rarely see her or speak to her. I am in therapy but it's much easier to talk about it than to actually do it.
Any thoughts or words of wisdom are always appreciated!!

Ariesagain

"Geez, Mom, that's a year from now. I can't commit to that right now. So other than that, what's new in your world?" (Or other subject change segue of your choice.)

Sometimes avoidance is the easiest way...lots can happen in a year.

Maudcat

Hey, pattyj. Well, as you know, alcoholics can be the most self-centered, manipulative group on the planet. I am assume mom is attempting to plan another family vacay, as opposed to just you and she? I would say, firm up your boundaries, tell her you are not going, not just that you "think" you can't. Don't justify, argue, etc. it's your life, your time off, and your peace of mind. Yes, it will be ugly, but do you really want to go on another drunken vacation with her? How do other family members feel?

pattyj

My mom says she has to book the trip now to get the best rates and yes it's a family vacation not just her and I. I think I will take that advice and just tell her I can't go. It will be around the holidays so being without family will be hard but I have friends that I can see instead. My other siblings don't like it but they have kids and either don't want to take the kids away from her or just can't say no. I can use my personal sobriety as an excuse where they can't. My mom is the boss of the family and doesn't do well with the word "no" so I'm technically the black sheep at this point. Which can be lonely at times but my life is better for it.

biminiblue

Yeah, I have to agree that a firm, "I'm not interested in going," is the way to handle this. Rip the bandaid off.

You're an adult. If you don't want to go (for any reason) you don't have to go. I've spent many a Christmas without family around. It's not the worst thing that can happen.

Alternately, you could pay for your own hotel/motel room by yourself - somewhere away from the family and you could disappear yourself whenever she drinks. Tell her ahead of time that you refuse 100% to be around her when she's drinking.

There are also worse things than being in Hawaii for the holidays. Solo beach time sounds really good to me.

pattyj

Thank you! I think I just needed someone to reaffirm my reasoning for not going. No, I do not want to go on another vacation with my drunk mother. And Christmas without family wouldn't be the worst thing in life. Being in a different hotel might work but paying to go back to school probably won't make that doable. Which is fine, because even if I did do that I'd still have to see her for more than a few hours.

MikeH

+1 ...
... although It's easier for me to write when I'm not the one in the situation... :-) And, I wouldn't get a hotel room nearby. Find a friend near your home and enjoy Christmas. Isn't there a song by a female singer about: "What part of the NO don't you understand"?

Rip an MP3 of it and e-mail it to your mother! :-)

Eauchiche

Alcoholic and a narcissist to boot. Dealing with a sober narcissist is bad enough.
They draw you in like a tractor beam, and control you with angst.

I'm going to share a little experience here.
This morning I made the hotel reservations for a trip I am taking on the train Christmas day. I don't have to deal with hostile family members and I wont be sitting around here alone Christmas day.
There are many other choices than spending Christmas with your mother or alone.
Good luck, and a MERRY Christmas to you!

ajarlson

It was so hard for me to set boundaries with my AM because she had never respected any boundaries in my life and when I would try she would just roll over them. In the end I just went complete no contact while I tried to become stronger. Everyone is different, glad you're in therapy, good luck and stay strong.

tromboneliness

Just to put in a plug for my favorite book on the subject, try When I Say No, I Feel Guilty, by Manuel J. Smith. This book is all about how to respond when people try to manipulate you. Basically, any sort of reasoning is a waste of time -- "I can't go because..." They'll always come up with answers to that "because" that will make you feel that you "can" and "have to" do what they want. What they can't answer is a simple "No," which -- as the program cliche goes -- is a complete sentence. Albeit a tough one to say, for me as much as anyone else! But Smith's book explains the whole thing and gives you exercises you can actually practice, to get the technique of assertiveness. I've tried them, and they work. It was a huge seller, so you can probably find a used copy for a buck or so online or in any used bookstore.

T

MikeH

:-) It must be the shortest sentence in the English language... That's a great way to look at it! Now, as you mentioned, if I could only get myself to practice that... :-)

biminiblue

It's like anything else.

Do it and watch what happens. The earth will not open up and swallow anyone, I promise.

MikeH

:-)

pattyj

I need to get that book! And yes, saying no won't cause the earth to implode. But what happens when your alcoholic parent asks why? Because they sure know how to make you feel guilty.

biminiblue

pattyj, your mother knows that you quit drinking? Have you told her how her drinking affects you? I think you need to have that conversation.

She doesn't have to agree or accept your (boundary) actions. She will most likely push back/argue/try to make it somehow about you. You are in control of you. She is in control of herself. Once you tell her that her drinking affects you negatively, then you do what you need to do to protect yourself from being around it.

Your thread from Sept. 2015 is so similar to this one, maybe reread it:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...om-family.html

pattyj

Man, I've been talking about this same issue for awhile now! Thank you for reminding me of that; it shows that I finally need to put my foot down with boundaries when it comes to my mother. And you are right. I control myself and she controls herself. There's nothing I can do to change her. Thank you for your advice!!

tromboneliness

Ya, they'll ask why -- and basically, your answer boils down to "because NO." There are exercises -- like, actual examples of how such a conversation usually goes -- and you can try them out. A lot of it just comes down to asking for what you want, which we tend not to do.

A lot of it, he pretty much says just to keep repeating it. "Why can't you come?" "Because I'm not coming." "Why can't you lend me some money?" "Because I can't, no." "Don't you want to do business today?" "No, I think not." Etc. Don't get into explaining why not, because a skillful manipulator will always have an answer for that, and you have to come up with another reason, and they've got something for that, and so on -- until you end up feeling like a lying sleazebag, or worse yet, give in and do the thing you don't want to do, and feel even worse because they manipulated you into doing it! They're better at this game than we are.

The techniques Smith lays out are great for anything -- getting a refund in the symphony ticket line when they unexpectedly change the program and drop the piece you wanted to hear (I did that one time, and they gave me my money back, which they officially never do). Or avoiding sleeping with some guy you'd rather not sleep with, who has all sorts of reasons why you should -- he's got dialogue examples for that.

With my Dad, I started hanging up on him. In 47 years, I had never done that, and he had never considered the idea that I had any right to hang up on him (and not pick up when he called back). Man, did he hate that -- but he did start calling less often!

T