Kialua

I was the scapegoat most of the time, until my dad was 80. I saw the real person others didn't and got the blame for everything little thing. I didn't own that though, I lived my life without needing any validation or proof from him. And even that can infuriate them. But I needed to do what I did to be emotionally safe.

Spacegoat

Yes, it's fair to say that as the eldest I was the scapegoat for a lot of things also. I tried not to own that too, rebelling against it and trying to make my own way in life but for many years afterwards I wasn't quite sure of myself in many ways.

I thought, as suggested often then that maybe I was to blame for a lot of problems between my parents as I got into trouble a few times as a teenager. My father had no problem blaming me then, and my mother has no problem now. (victim blaming?)

The usual trouble- drinking, fighting, shmoking. I say the usual because I never partook in anything that I didn't see others the same age as me or older (my peers) doing. Not then, and not since then also. Monkey see monkey do as they say, and nothing sinister either.

Once I moved out, even though I did carry all those feelings of guilt, self doubt, blame etc. I learned years later that my father started on my next brother down then. Abusing him verbally, mentally, emotionally, and physically and he was never in trouble at school or whatnot.

I wasn't the catalyst for the abuse after all, it took me a long time to realize that. My mother got him to take out a student loan at the time also, managed to convince him to put it in her account then gas-lighted him on it and never paid it back. So, business as usual for her then (ugh)

My next brother down didn't suffer any of the abuse directly, yet he's the one who likes to talk about it all the time. He is turning into an NPD abuser like my mother. In fact it suits both their narrative these days to say that I made the situation worse by defending my mother on most days.

DesertEyes

The link to "Out of the fog" is here:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...nks-acoas.html

It is in the second post on that thread. There is a link to a reddit site as well.

Mike
Moderator, SR

Spacegoat

I looked at a couple of those groups. One person was saying that an NPD person is basically evil.

I'l be honest, before this I had to come to the same conclusion myself. That's all I see in my mother.

It's hard for me to understand, let alone explain. Good for her I guess? She gets away with everything.

I agree with you Gracie it's pretty stressful all in all. She has never tried to change or seek help for that.

GracieLou

I have heard that as well and I am not sure if I agree. Seeing something as evil stirs up hate and anger in me. I am so done feeling that way.

I simply look at my mother as someone that has a personality disorder that effects my life if she is in it. I simply removed the possibility for that to happen anymore. She no longer affects my life.

I know now that how she treated me was emotional abuse. I understand now that she is not going to change. The serenity prayer says "Accept the things I cannot change and the courage to change the things I can".

I accept the knowledge I have about NPD and that my mother is a narcissist. I cannot change her but I can change my exposure to her. So I changed what I could and went NC.

It was not easy. It was hard the first couple months, she is my mother after all. I did not miss her or mourn her. I mourned knowing I would never have the relationship with her that I always wanted.

For years I dreamed and hoped for it but of course all those years I thought it was my fault. That was her doing. If I had known years ago, I would have went NC years ago but it was brought to me in sobriety and I am grateful for that.

I can't go back, I can only move forward.

I felt this way for a while too but can you imagine the stress she is under day after day hiding her real self, manipulating, lying, setting things up, conning, stealing etc. All to live a life that is secret and fake with the constant pressure of being discovered?

All to get away with it?

I personally would rather be happy with what I have but they don't have that choice nor that capability. In a way, it gives me comfort knowing that I have found a life free from all that type of chaos but she remains in it. That is how she has to live and it will never change.

I can wake up every morning knowing I live a good honest life. She will never have peace or serenity.

And she never will. She does not think what she is doing is wrong. They know the things they do are wrong, they just can't not do them as this would lead to a total break down of the mask, they can't have that.

Spacegoat

Yeah you're right it's been a lifetime of emotional abuse with her.

She tries to spin it on my father but it's been mostly all her doing.

Don't get me wrong he is abusive too. My life is a F'n nightmare.

I used to take that into consideration when I was in a better place.

But. I don't do any of that stuff, and I'm the one who ends up stressed.

My stress rash. Years of self medicating. My self destruction. Meltdowns.

It's almost like me trying to become a decent and normal person is in vain.

Kialua

It's not. It is a journey. Help yourself first and don't worry about others right now. Don't be hard on yourself. There is a lot of learning to do while you journey.

happybeingme

Stratman- I suspect you are a decent person. Have you ever considered that you actually might be? I know I had a hard time thinking of myself that way but when I first quit drinking I knew I had to try. So, I said to myself " self you are going to start treating yourself at least as kindly as you treat a stranger" It was a small start but it was something.

Have you quit your self medicating?

Spacegoat

I suspect that too happy Yeah I have actually, and that is what I am.

I got in some fights when I was a kid and have been judged on since then.

I've been sober for 4 months today after years of trying and a couple false starts.

As for medical weed, I had to give that up too as it's all criminal underworld BS here.

GracieLou

I found this on my computer. I had forgotten about it but when I first read it I cried. Some of it was because I was angry but it also gave me validation and it made me feel just a little stronger and I wanted to share it.

I'M TAKING IT BACK...

You raised me to keep silent, to cover the truth with lies. To mask my tears with a smile for the world to see. To go along with all you say and do, never to protest. You stole my integrity. I'm taking it back.

You raised me to believe I am something I'm not. Small, weak, insignificant, invisible. To hide in the shadows while you steal the spotlight. You stole my worth. I'm taking it back.

You raised me to be fearful, to cower in a corner while being struck with fists and slammed by rage. You stole my ability to grow courageous in spirit as my physical being grew taller and stronger. I'm taking it back.

You raised me to hate the people you hate and worship only you. To bow down to your every need despite my moral obligation to protest. You stole the right to make choices for myself. I'm taking it back.

You raised me to feel guilty for every harsh word you spoke, and embarrassed by every misdeed you took part in. To carry your shame as if it were my own. You stole my pride. I'm taking it back.

You raised me to doubt my own choices, and calculate my words before they were ever spoken. To expect a backlash even when I only meant to please. You stole my voice. I'm taking it back.

You raised me to keep people at a distance, to hide behind a veil of shyness and loneliness. To always keep people at an arm's length away and depend only on you. You stole my individuality. I'm taking it back.

You had no right to steal from me, to steal the most precious gifts that are my birthright. You made me a stepping stool to lift yourself higher on a pedestal created in your own mind. In your eyes I am nothing, and you raised me to believe that your version of me is factual. To hate myself. To mistrust myself. And even as I break away from your toxic web, you will go out of your way to steal my good reputation from the eyes of the world, but that is okay. I was never enough of a somebody to actually create a reputation for myself. But everything else you stole, I'M TAKING IT BACK, and you will never lay another finger on it again.

We are ALL taking it back!

Spacegoat

Thank you for sharing GracieLou

Spacegoat

It sounds like you have had a very rough time with her Gracie.

Well I am so very grateful for you here, believe me about that.


Guess what? I had an epiphany after I read through all of this.

I thought to myself, I would have to address this to both mine.

BOTH OF MY PARENTS ARE NARCISSISTIC ABUSERS MAN

That was the epiphany. Holy crap, I think I'm exactly right too.

GracieLou

This has crossed my mind as well. I have not really spoken to my father in years. If he does have NPD his is different than my mothers.

There are different types. My mother was more on the emotional and mental scale of things.

For my father I would have to say he is more on the "status" of life and the appearance side of the NPD scale. I remember he always wanted the house super clean, super nice furniture that we were not allowed to sit on, like a show room house. He always wanted to keep up with Jones, wanted the status and the money. He adopted my brother and I only so we would have his last name and people would not know he was not our biological father. It was a secret and we were not suppose to tell anyone. He wanted the appearance of it all even though we could not afford it. Even the house we lived in was way out of their pay scale.

He never played mind games that I was aware of. He never wanted to be buddies, he never told me lies but my mother said he lied and stole all the time. This was something she used against him if he even tried to knock her off her pedestal.

His was more of wanting to appear perfect, my mother did not want to appear perfect on the outside, the condition of her house and herself did not even come close to wanting appearances, in fact it was the opposite. She never cleaned, hardly bathed and she is a hoarder. She wanted to appear so perfect on the inside that you would not even consider judging the outside and if you did, then she had a long lists of things in your life that would knock you down so far that looking back at her was no longer on your mind.

Narcissist do attract narcissists so it is not out of the question.

Pouncer

(((Strat and Gracie)))

I popped in here after I saw your posts and they really made me angry. I could never imagine myself treating my children that way.

I didn't have the best childhood either and at some point around 5th grade, I realized I had to be my own parent and it made me angry. I know the inner-child stuff is so cliche that it has lost its meaning, but it really helped me to accept the most negative aspects of my childhood. I essentially pretended I was a parent to the 8-year-old inside me who never got the attention and unconditional love she deserved. Somehow I have a good relationship with my parents now, but at one point, my dad escalated his physical abuse of my sisters and me.

I was whipped with a switch until I was 16 years old. He always broke the skin and I remember not wanting to wear shorts because of the marks on my legs. One time my father repeatedly punched my 16-year-old sister in a public parking lot - in the face, everywhere. She was lying on the asphalt and trying to protect her head. I recently confronted my parents and they contend that that incident and others never happened.

We rarely had extra money, but we always got new school clothes. One time I was modeling the clothes my mother bought me for my dad. I put on what I thought was a conservative pair of white leggings and a peach knit button-down top. The next thing I knew, I was on the ground being kicked, my hair was being pulled and my father was calling me a sl*t and a wh*re. As usual, I apologized and begged him to stop. My mother always backed up my father. It was a double betrayal.

My parents are very well off now and they are actually very kind, involved and permissive grandparents. I still get angry about my childhood - but I feel anger less and less. I now accept that I was treated abusively and that my current relationship with my parents is conflicting.

My dad and mom were living a grueling life at the time. Their two eldest were living with my grandmother 4 hours away so that they could finish high school in the same city. When they denied the abuse, it felt as if I was back to the 1980s, as a defenseless child who was prisoner to my parents' mercurial moods and whims. For a few days after my confrontation, it was easy to forget that I was an adult and was free to make my own decisions without punishment, disregard and criticism. I also wonder (now that I am an adult) if there were issues of alcohol use at the time the abuse was at its worst. In fact, I am pretty sure there were, but if it happened, it was hidden.

I am sorry for rambling. I have a voracious appetite for stories from other childhood abuse survivors. It makes me feel somewhat normal. I do have a point, though:

Parental abuse and neglect leave a lasting mark on a child. Even though I haven't thought about those events in years, I still remember it in vivid detail. Your mother continues to manipulate, bully and abuse you as an adult. There is no doubt in my mind that if you had an hour to reflect on your childhood, you would vividly remember the worst moments of your childhood and feel as helpless as you did when you were a child. If my 8-year-old self had the option to leave them, the abuse and the very unhappy home my parents built, I would have left in a split second. You are an adult and you fortunately have the choice to leave and not allow the 8-year-old, 18-year-old or 12-year-old inside of you to be further abused.

It probably took 10 years to measurably mourn my childhood and the parents that I deserved, but never had. You need to start the mourning process and rehabilitate you with self-kindness. Starting was the worst part for me. I really didn't want to let go.

I think abuse survivors almost always have great difficulty in asserting boundaries or even knowing what they want or how they feel. It might be worth mentioning that your mother's behavior also sounds an awful lot like Borderline Personality Disorder, too. (the guilting, the golden child/scapegoat relationship, the histrionics, et cetera). Anyway it is probably worth looking into.

Best wishes in your healing process.

Spacegoat

Thanks guys. These little bits of validation has been a huge breakthrough of some sort

Spacegoat

Mike, thanks for the links and Gracie for the book suggestion. I won't be doing any books at the moment. I was a committed collector when I was homeless, I amassed a lot!

And I used to read a lot while stoned (used to love that) so it kinda reminds me of those things. I have a book here 'They F*** You Up', it has good reviews but I haven't read it yet.

I think its more generalised, certainly I didn't pick it up for no reason though. I checked out the reddit forum. Ugh, man. Maybe it was the day that was in it, but I know its there now.

Guys I found this site so I thought I would share it back, it looks really good actually - https://afternarcissisticabuse.wordpress.com - so hopefully it may be some use to you guys also.

I've decided I am going to use that as my resource, maybe an article a day to start. I read '6 Types of Emotional Abuse by Narcissistic Parents' earlier on. So peace, love and (((((lack of)))))

happybeingme

Start- that subreddit can be tough but on that page there are also links for other narcissism subs. They may be more suited for you.

Thanks for the link to the new site. I am going to check it out

GracieLou

Lighthouse.org is another good site to check out.

They list the characteristics of an NPD mothers.

Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers - LIGHT'S HOUSE

On a side note, I was scanning Facebook a week go and one of my current friends posted a picture of a girl I knew in high school, I have not seen her in 25 years or more. Anyway, I friended her and today I was making a comment on one of the Facebook NPD groups and she liked it, I was blown away. That is now the 3rd person, in real life, since I started this journey that has an NPD parent. Two of them I found in the rooms of AA.

Talk about validation and not feeling alone!

We are having lunch next week. I can't wait to catch up!

The more I look, the more I realize how many of us there are. It is more common than I thought. I figured this was one of those things that did not have much support but I was so wrong about that. We are everywhere, just like us alcoholics...LOL

Just as another alcoholic understands me, another NPD survivor understands me. That was something I never thought in a million years I would find because I was always led to believe that the horrible relationship with my mother was my fault, that I was always doing something wrong.

Spacegoat

Nice to hear that Gracie. No offense but 3 people is not a whole lot, it's not even enough to play doubles at tennis! I'm joking.


I'm delighted to hear you are getting your life back. That's really something and you are not alone now. You are a good person.

Pouncer

I popped in here to wish you all a peaceful mothers day.