Tonks

While painful at times, I've found that it works best for my mental health if I share my time and emotional energy with those who enrich my life in a loving and supportive way. The majority of my immediate family is extremely toxic and I feel exhausted just spending a few moments with them...

In the end, we have to make a healthy choice for our own sake and then follow that choice with action. Otherwise, nothing will change.

Best wishes to you

OGK

"Is it possible that there is no explanation and they simply want to reject everything I stand for - no support for my sobriety (NONE), no support for my marriage (nasty remarks, avoiding my wife), no support for me (I don't love you, you have no friends - the insults go on and on), no support for our efforts to have a little one (we've been trying for 4.5 yrs), no acknowledgement of my feelings or the abusive behavior, etc, etc. "

Yes, it's possible, but if "I" thought that way, I'd be "normal" and not have to be here on SR in the first place, right?. This reminds me of my struggles with FFOO and recovery. I'm terribly introspective and have been deeply affected by hurtful words and actions all my life. It sucks and it's a hard cycle to break. Rather than ignore it, I had to utilize my negative traits to my advantage. I took everything apart and analyzed it to death, in order to move past it permanently. No more ambushes! It's painful, I'm sure there's an easier way but it's the only way I know how to do it, my recovery.

I say I can relate to your post and here's how. My FFOO is just jealous and will do anything they can to drag me back in. I've made it obvious that I don't want their life, their world, their baggage. I left at 18 and looked for my own tribe. I found a partner in life, one that is positive and one with an equally positive FOO. Bigoted comments, racial jokes, ignorance and just plain meanness, everything was fair game. I toiled in the guilt, the Less Than, and I tried very hard to identify with my FOO but I was ultimately done before I knew it, I just could not get rid of that romantic need to make them into the FOO I always seem to covet from afar.

So for me, in early recovery (AA-ACoA) I just accepted that it's awkward and it hurts.... AND it WILL pass. I just keep putting in the work until it sticks. It takes time and it is flat out brutal but Eventually, IMHO, you'll keep pounding and investigating and you will inevitably be like people that have what "I" want, peace, serenity, balance and above all, freedom from fear of being ME/you-(if I may say).

Keep plugging along, stay on task and eventually your FOO will cease to squat in your dome. Be patient and kind to yourself.
OGK

thotful

ArtFriend, I love the link you shared! I will be reading thoroughly.

"Inner Hecklers will be immediately asked to leave."

Yes!

irisgardens

thotful...took a very very long time for me to process my issues with FOO treatment...and I was encouraged to talk it out until I had nothing left to say...and I did. It helped immensely. I still get the 'craving' for FOO support when things are really bad and there have been many times like that...however, at some point...I accepted that they don't accept me as is and never will...so when they don't respond to an email (I am usually positive but occasionally just yearn to share with a sib--mom is a lost cause) or only to emails that I have carefully crafted to their preference and to make them feel good...I remind myself that it is me who loves them...and so I do this stuff when I am lonely...or truly have no idea where to turn...and it is an old habit...and then I let go again...and remember who they are and have always been (except for the very occasional positive). I like your posts.

makomago

I protect myself from toxic people on facebook in two/three ways... 1. I don't add them (especially family) 2. I delete the ones that turn toxic and 3. ... this is hte one I find most effective - Drum roll, please - get ready for it..

I simply don't use it. I don't go on facebook. I avoid it, I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than be party to the drivvle that gets posted on it....

...Yeah, I will add facebook to my resentment list and I'll ask the maker for the willingness to make amends at a later date (maybe). Right now, I'm very happy to have detached with(out) love from my relationship with facebook :-)

hopeful4

Good Morning. I have a question, and if you have already said this and I missed it, sorry in advance.

It seems quite vague as to why it is they don't like your wife. Is there something specific that happened to make them feel so strongly about this?

They sound like a toxic bunch. It's great that you have family through her family, that is a wonderful thing. It's not always your blood relatives who end up being your true relatives in my opinion.

I am sorry you are dealing with this.

thotful

By refusing to actually talk to my wife and I about it, I don't really know what their "issue" is. It's not a single thing they're asking for an apology for;

When my wife was moving in with me, we made a compromise with her cats. Most of my siblings are allergic. We agreed to have the cats in the garage. She made space for them (blankets and such). Then, she blocked off the door by removing the handle, sealing it, covering the area with visqueen, the taping that. It was a VERY long process. I have a hot-tub and 1 brother in particular used to come over a lot and used the hot-tub. A rack of swim trunks (for he and his 3 children) sat in the garage. With cats in the garage, that would no longer work. Also, I was not comfortable with them leaving their WET clothes in the house (nowhere to really put it like an entryway that I would be OK with getting wet). So, we washed the swim gear and put it in a bag. My mistake was to not hand it over to my brother personally (I had NO recovery at the time and felt too anxious about it). My wife handed it to him. He tried to hand it back and say, "you can keep these here." She replied with, "You need to take these with you. But, you can bring them back when you will use the hot-tub again."

Apparently, this little scenario was my wife telling my brother he was no longer welcome in my house. He argued that people used to come over to my house all the time, but I was now lucky if anyone visited once a year (this was blatantly false). Another brother and his wife lived with us for a few months and moved out (apparently the move was bad somehow?? something unfamiliar to me). A third brother stayed with us for a few months and he was supposedly pushed out as well (we discussed it with him and he clearly misunderstood). We also had my niece live with us for a few months as well.

So, my home was no longer party central. My 1st brother once got upset when I had no beer in the fridge. I replied, "bring your own beer." We locked the front door (I used to leave it unlocked). People had to ask before coming over. My brother once came out of the blue - I was in the shower and my wife was dressing. We didn't answer the door.

For me, it seems like the opposite of how my 1st brother views things. WE had SEVERAL people live with us for several months. Virtually rent free. I look at that as a giving thing. But apparently because they wanted to move out quickly, that was bad. I don't know about you, but there are people I love to death but would HATE living with - so "wanting to" move out sounds like something perfectly normal to me. Why WOULDN'T a person want to live on their own?? Each time, it was just me wanting to support my family members while they got on their feet (save some money, then get apartment/home/etc).

As mentioned above, I've tried to have them sit down and talk with my wife and I. Clear the air. They have issues...OK, let's talk about it. Why would it be so difficult to talk about these scenarios with my wife?

Unfortunately, they refuse to meet. I made an offer for counseling. One brother refused. Another brother ignored it. Apparently, I'm trying to "win". For me, I want them to have the opportunity to share their hurts with my wife. I DON'T want to be caught in the middle. They refuse. Whenever I'm around them, they try to interact with me like everything's OK ("I have no issues with you, I only have issues with your wife). They don't look at my wife. They barely acknowledge her. It's the effort to sweep everything under the rug. But my wife is treated like...like she's nothing (lots of name-calling, etc).

They have argued that my wife is controlling me (apparently talking with my wife before saying we would have my 3rd brother live with us was letting her be in control -- for me, wouldn't it be a joint decision? what would they say if she was a roommate?). I've given them the benefit of the doubt and have asked my counselor several times. "If I'm being controlled, how would I know? how would I counteract it?" he has replied "Know yourself. Know who you are". So, as it turns out, she is not the one trying to tell me I'm feeling differently than I truly am - it is my siblings that are doing that. In my opinion, it's not her that's in control. It's that they have lost control of me. I am significantly more resilient to manipulation.

OK, I"m rambling. We can't fix what we don't acknowledge. Since they refuse to talk about it. And they are not polite. Not respectful to my wife (they say they are, but it doesn't feel that way at all). I'm left to work on myself for now.

hopeful4

It sounds like you and your wife set very reasonable boundaries that they were not prepared to hear. Likely they have just blown it up from there.

Focus on the wonderful family you do have. Your FOO have issues they refuse to deal with and are using your wife and you as scapegoat.

Enjoy your own hottub and invite people who are kind and treat you well.

So sorry you have to go through this.

tromboneliness

Wait a sec -- this is YOUR house we're talking about? They're all upset that they can't treat your house like it's theirs, and you're the bad guy? That's backwards! They can do what they want at their own house -- in yours, they play by your rules. That's how it works.

T

NWGRITS

Seriously. It's YOUR house! YOUR wife and HER cats. They shouldn't have to be banished to the garage in your home because of your family. That's so backwards. They can go pick up some Claritin before they come over. And they have their own swim trunk rack? It sounds like they own the place, not you. Just think about that for a moment. You and your wife are bending over backwards to make people comfortable who don't even live there! I would never expect someone to kick their cat or dog out and deep clean before I come over. That's what allergy meds are for!

Kialua

If my husband's family treated me like this, they would no longer be in my home, ever again. And if my husband didn't step in and tell them to knock it off in no uncertain terms, that I come first and would be treated with respect at all times, then he would be out as well. We had smaller comparable issues when we first dated, but after we married it was no longer tolerated. They learned to comply or not be in our life. Either one works for me.

MikeH

+1

thotful

If memory serves well, we were dating when she moved in (about 6 months or so, I think). She wasn't a wife at the time, but a girlfriend. Still, I totally agree with the idea that I get to set the rules in my own home. I guess what's missing from their perception is something truly important. I loved her. And very much so. I loved her enough to want to make a life with her. I think that has a very different connotation than the people I was born along-side. This is the person I chose to have in my life - my vows established that my intentions were to make it permanent.

6 months went by after the move-in, and I proposed (I was really waiting for the 1 year mark). Everything I read seems to show that is a normal time-frame for a relationship.

We married after 2 years of dating. We've been married for 5 years this coming September 18, 2015.

I like the example of "they're acting like they own the place." That's how it felt.

I eventually realized, "umm...How often are you in this home versus ME?" AND "umm...how often is she living in this home versus YOU?". Our comfort comes first. Our house, our rules. Your house, your rules.

NWGRITS

Keep that love for your wife in the forefront of your mind. You and I both know that alcoholic/codie families tend to run on "If I'm not happy, nobody's happy". That's what this is. You're happy and that doesn't fly with the dysfunctional group atmosphere. You're getting to the light here, kiddo. Keep up the good work.

FireSprite

It sounds as simple as this (if I have my facts straight):

Some of your family members are alcoholics, right?

I'm guessing when your "Normie" wife/girlfriend moved in, they saw her as a threat to them. Maybe it's a simple matter of all of them communicating poorly - maybe what she meant wasn't conveyed in what she said..... or it WAS but they interpreted it as insulting & reacted in kind.

They may NEVER see eye to eye with you. It sounds like they have a long history of steamrolling over you prior to her arrival in your life & don't like that her presence stopped that. Perhaps they expected her to be long-gone by now & in absence of that, their resentment just kept multiplying without anybody re-examining Why. And if they are wrapped up in active addiction & codependency, they may simply be externalizing every little thing on her as a scapegoat (which explains why no one can give you a solid answer as to why this is ongoing.)

With them offering no concrete, legit reason for their feelings I don't know how you'll ever reach a compromise, honestly.

GracieLou

This is how my mother treated my home when she lived with me. Her room was horrid. She was a hoarder and dirty. Her cats would crap on my couch, bed, bath mats and in the tub. I was just supposed to accept her, her mess, her cats and her hoard. Not only accept it but clean up after it as well.

I did for four long years until I got the courage to ask her to move out. When I did she threw every insult in the book at me including that I was nothing but a dry drunk.

She finally moved in June of last year and I have not seen nor spoken to her since. It is one of the best decisions I have made for me and my life. It is my life, I don't have to live it trying to please others that take the fact that I cared and use it against me for their own selfish motives.

That may sound cold and harsh but what she was doing was worse. At least I was able to express my feelings, have her move and be done in three months time. Hers was my whole lifetime and would have continued if I had allowed it to continue.

People are going to treat you and your wife the way you allow them to. Boundaries are the only thing some people will understand. Most people know not to take to much, not to assume to much, not to expect to much but others don't or even if they do they will continue to cross the line unless you tell them not to step over it anymore.

It is as simple as that.

It is hard to do, it hurts to have to do it and it is almost impossible to stick to them because of guilt. But they are the ones that should feel bad and should feel the guilt. Not you for wanting your own home and your own life.

You are the healthy one here. Keep it that way

kudzujean

Sounds like your FOO may feel threatened by your recovery.

I have one sibling like that. She's an untreated ACOA. She thinks of our early life with active late-stage alcoholic father as something like a Disney movie. The reality is it was like THE SHINING.

I feel your pain.

kudzujean

Sounds like your FOO has some big-time problems with boundaries.

"In my opinion, it's not her that's in control. It's that they have lost control of me."

You are absolutely correct on this one. But it's easier for them to be angry at and rude to your wife, who's an in-law, than for them to be angry at you.

From what you've said, sounds like they're the ones that have a problem.