Confrontation with Codependent Mother

[Iwanttoheal]

Well what an insightful night I had last night.

For those of you who haven't been following my story, a very quick recap. Following an escalation of chaos with alcoholic brother and codependent mother, I went no contact with them both six weeks ago. We all live on a small UK offshore island within a couple of miles of each other and it was only a matter of time before one of them confronted me.

In the early days of nc I was very scared of this confrontation (mother and brother are verbal bullies / manipulators and in the past I have avoided them rather than stand up to them). Well, what a difference six weeks make and what a long way I have come. I owe SR and everyone here so much.

Last night, I spent an hour with codependent mother - my time boundaries and leaving plans were firmly in place. I assumed observor mode and it made interesting viewing. I didn't engage emotionally and remained calm but most importantly, I stood up for myself, challenging all the denial and her bs, and had my say.

I had everything thrown at me - accusations, anger, bitterness, vindictiveness, hurt, tears, coldness, self-righteousness, superiority, superciliousness and self-pity+++. The more I wouldn't engage and calmly refuted what she was saying the more desperate her performance became. Her trademark manipulative barbs became crude sledgehammer blows - talk about laying it on thick.

It was good for me though, good to see her in full flow and to be able not to engage, not to respond, not to care - in the words of my daughter "talk to the hand coz the face (heart) ain't bovvered". All she got from me was calm honesty and she couldn't handle it. At one point, in a tremulous voice, she quavered "You don't blame me for your childhood, do you?" I responded that no I don't blame her but I hold her equally reponsible and accountable with my father for her poor choices and lack of coping skills. She couldn't handle this and the denial re-emerged +++ but even that was okay, this is all about me now.

I honestly never expected her to truthfully acknowledge her part, to apologise, to understand the pain she and my Dad caused - in her eyes, she is both a heroine and a victim who is being unfairly punished by her daughter. In my eyes, she is a sad individual who is living a lie and who does not have the courage to examine her life, warts and all. And for me, that's okay, my need for an apology and a loving, caring mother has gone.

I finished off our meeting by re-hammering my boundaries in place - I would not be available to sort out my brother's alcoholic dramas any more; I didn't want to hear another word about him - he is on his own; I would not be available to look after her house, she had to make her own choices and arrangements for her future; and I would no longer be family social secretary - in future thay could arrange their own birthday and Xmas's, we would not be attending. It leaves us with nothing, possibly, nodding in the street if we pass and that's just fine with me.

I woke this morning in the place where I wanted to be - calm, at peace and not bothered. From now on, my energy and precious time is going to be spent on me, my dh and our kids. What a start to ds and I's first ever sailing trip .

IWTHxxx

[dothi]

Wow, that's pretty powerful stuff IWTH. I really commend your strength. It's a complete 180 transition.

And what a nice note to leave on your sailing trip with!

I'm still afraid of the guilt my AF would heap my way in a confrontation like that. : Yet, I would love to have that confrontation to see if the hooks still work.

[GiveLove]

Excellent work, IWTH.

You have come so far, and I am just as delighted and grateful as can be.

What is that Dr. Seuss book? "Oh, the places you'll go."

[Outvoid]

IWTH, good for you! =)

I, too, have a codependent (and alcoholic) mother who would not respect my boundries.

I finally had to get a restraining order against her.

Next to getting in recovery, it was the best thing I ever did in my life.

--Outvoid--

[takincareome]

Good for you! That's heavy stuff and it sounds like you handled it wonderfully.
You're at peace, which is absolutely the most important thing.
I'm so proud of you!

[tromboneliness]

That is just totally smokin', IWTH -- great work! That is exactly how we're supposed to be able to handle these interactions -- not get roped in by the manipulative BS, but call them out on their stuff, don't put up with it, and stick to your boundaries. Keep at it!

And have a great trip! Here's hoping the weather's good!

T

[Iwanttoheal]

Thanks for all your posts guys - they mean a lot.

That confrontation (although not pleasant) seems to have laid a lot to rest. That feeling of "unfinished business" has completely disappeared. Finding the courage to stand up for myself, challenge the bs, assign responsibility and know that I did so calmly and honestly has done wonders for my self-esteem. I feel like a kid who has taken on the school bully.

I have woken up the past three mornings feeling free and light.

Originally Posted by dothi

I'm still afraid of the guilt my AF would heap my way in a confrontation like that. : Yet, I would love to have that confrontation to see if the hooks still work.

I wouldn't have that confrontation until it feels "right". Somehow, I just knew I was okay, I was ready - not in an angry, defensive way but in a calm, confident way.

I think it was GingerM who posted about confrontation in a sticky at the top of this forum. She said to observe because you can't observe and experience at the same time (psychological phenomenon). She was right, it worked for me - when you are concentrating on someone's body language, tone of voice, facial expressions you really do get amazing clarity - you clearly see the hooks that cause you to respond and you defend against them accordingly.

The main thing that helped for me was to go into the confrontation with no hope and no expectations and be at peace with that. At some point, over the last six weeks I have let go my need of having a mother who would put me first, give me a cuddle and say I love you, you're doing brilliantly, everything is going to be fine. Not having those needs and expectations allowed me to not engage.

It feels good, it feels as if I am finally moving forward, IWTHxxx

PS Our sailing day was cold, wet and windy but great fun, we're going again in a couple of weeks.

[tromboneliness]

Originally Posted by Iwanttoheal

PS Our sailing day was cold, wet and windy but great fun, we're going again in a couple of weeks.

Sounds great! I like to play golf on that kind of day -- when most people are cancelling their tee times!

You're doing well -- I am not, in any way, shape, or form, able to confront my Dad the way you're describing. That's why I say (at meetings) that if he and I were the same age (and, obviously, the relationship were different), I'd have no choice but to kick him out of my life and just refuse to contact him in any way. It sounds like you're definitely ont he right track!

Keep it up!

T

[cupido]

Hi IWTH,

I just had the opportunity to follow a couple of your posts. First of all, thank you for sharing your experience; you have really come a long way and it is very inspiring to see how you have acknowledged the problems and safeguarded your own personal development at your own pace.

I find that co-dependency is a very sneaky issue as discovering the underlying causes is like opening a Pandora's box. Once you acknowledge it, you end up realizing that it dates way back to a time that you cannot even clearly remember and all of a sudden every dysfunctional piece in your life begins forming a clear picture. Unfortunately, I still struggle with the fact that I have been quite blind for a long time (I have always tried to be honest with myself) and I feel the way I feel because our interactions with my mother almost programmed me to do so.

I look forward to a day when I can wake up feeling calm and at peace just like you said, focusing clearly on my life instead of trying to save my mother constantly. Truthfully, I am quite tired of trying to communicate with her and show her what she is so resistant to see but now I am realizing that this is not my job. It brings along too much guilt and too much self-criticism when I fail repeatedly as I cannot control her actions. I am constantly scared to upset or hurt her but I cannot protect her from her own actions and decisions! However, I still cannot come to terms with not having any expectations, for some reason I remember a better time (although I am doubting if that is an illusion in my head)!

I am not ready to confront her again (I remember pouring my heart out to her including how she has been making me feel for a long time now - only to hear that I am exaggerating things) although I have made it clear that I am not going to be involved when she uses me as an anchor and offload all her baggage, to keep doing what she does and have me watch her from the sidelines while she takes her own decisions that end up hurting her. I know this is our pattern and one of us has to put a stop to it. I just hope I can figure out the boundaries I am comfortable with and let go off my expectations.

[Iwanttoheal]

Hi Cupido

Welcome to our board - glad you found us :-)

Posting here has helped me work through and come to terms with so many things in my life.

I hear what you say about your expectations of your mother - even though I have come a long way, I sometimes have expectations of how she should behave. This usually crops up at difficult times when I need support.

The difference now is my awareness - when the expectations raise their head, I acknowledge them (sometimes I feel pain and disappointment that my expectations won't be realised) and then I move on without engaging with her. I have learnt that to engage in the hope that I will experience unconditional motherly love and support is futile. It is something that this woman is incapable of providing - it is always ALL about her.

During our confrontation, I was explaining how it felt to live as a child seeing and experiencing verbal & physical abuse and neglect. Even then, she couldn't acknowledge my pain - she spewed out how bad it had been for her, how she had been all alone, how she had no-one to support her. She couldn't / wouldn't accept that she had responsibility to her children and that she was 50% accountable. I saw her for what she was, a child who had never grown up, a child who should never had had children.

Sometimes I feel there is a great big hole in me, I never had a mother or a father but the good news is I no longer go looking to her to be the mother I need. I am learning to be my own mother - I tell myself I am doing well, that I am proud of me, that everything is going to be okay. I interact with people who give me positive help and support without judgement or expectation - this is also a new experience for me as life with AF and codie mother was always loaded negative emotions. It feels funny typing this at 44 and life still feels strange looking at it without ACAO blinkers but it is good, I'm moving forward with my life, I am no longer enmeshed.

I hope you keep posting. Take care,

IWTHxxx

[cupido]

Thank you for your post. You basically summed up everything that I have been slowly figuring out for the past few weeks.

It's just incredible how guilty and selfish I can feel for trying to protect and support myself. Every little step that I take which brings me closer to true happiness makes me feel like I am abandoning her. It actually hurts me to see the further away I get from her, the happier I am.

I am beginning to see her for who she really is -a very lost soul that has always escaped from the fact that her actions are the ones that shaped her life into what it is now. I used to think that she never got a break and that being alone is the hardest thing anyone has to endure. Now I realize that she just trips over her own traps, not anyone else's.

I guess realizing that you have a bad habit is not the same thing as breaking that habit. I know I need to be patient with myself but my subconscious is putting up one hell of a fight with my logic. I physically feel sick when I think of her and I truly hate that feeling.

The worst part of it all is that I am letting it affect my own family and it scares me that I might in the future use my own kids to self-soothe myself. I realize that I have asked more from my husband for my mother than I would have for myself. However, at the end of the day he is doing it for me!! As understanding as he is, I do not want him to have to lug around my emotional baggage. I want to get better for myself and I want to get better for him. So why do I still feel like I might regret it in the future if I do not try my best to help my mother out?

I haven't had verbal contact with her for a while -have to resist the frequent temptation- but it doesn't mean that I have completely stopped checking up on what she has been up to from indirect methods. Not surprisingly, the more I engage in her life, the more I keep thinking and worrying about her. I am not quite sure if she understands why I am not contacting her but any effort to explain to her would fail so I do not see the point of discussing with her why I am doing what's best for me. Just writing these lines I realize I seek for some kind of closure where someone understands why I have to think of myself first.

Tapping into my emotions is like opening the Pandora's box I wonder what else is in there.

xx, C

[dothi]

Originally Posted by cupido

Just writing these lines I realize I seek for some kind of closure where someone understands why I have to think of myself first.

It may feel codependent, but frankly after a childhood of having been trained to ignore your own needs, I think a little encouragement and validation for taking care of yourself are in order.

This strikes a chord for me. It's been over a year since I moved away from my family (alcoholic father, codependent mother), and I can feel that I am still unhealthily immeshed to some extent. My mom and sister still talk to me, but my brother has stopped. I guess I want to feel understood that I had to leave in order to start putting myself first (instead of them and the ongoing alcohol-related drama). It's dumb because I "abandoned" them and yet I'm feeling abandoned, that not only was I not worth treating well while I was there, but now that I'm gone... Yes, nice ACOA rationalizations at work.

I think it's hard for us to feel like we can simply move forward because our brains are stuck developmentally at that stage where we're still relying on them to let us know that we're making smart choices.

[cupido]

Originally Posted by dothi

It may feel codependent, but frankly after a childhood of having been trained to ignore your own needs, I think a little encouragement and validation for taking care of yourself are in order. .

Reading this line put a smile on my face so thank you. I have never thought in terms of my needs even though I regularly question whether I am being selfish; nowadays I do get a hidden sense of achievement when I address my needs first. At the end of the day I have greater chance of success dealing with my own problems than the problems of my mother.

You have probably done the best thing for yourself by leaving the house. I found that back home (maybe calling it home is not the right description), my only purpose was being the care-taker who wasn't allowed to make her own decisions or mistakes for that matter as this would go against the job description.

It has not been long since I moved out and away so I can completely relate to your feelings. It was the easiest and at the same time the hardest thing to do. If I stayed I would be stuck forever.

What intrigues me is that I was always stronger for my mother than I am for myself. I had to deal with so many inappropriate situations but none of that ever scared me and now that I want to take care of myself even my own mind scares me. She is a perfectionist and she has made me into one too. I am used to her pointing out every little mistake that I make. I think this completely related to what you are saying about being told that we are making the right decisions. Because before I was executing her decisions so they were always pre-approved

I have never been able to open up about this before even through times where I was battling depression. Not being in control of your emotions was a sign of weakness for me. Talking about it would just mean accepting defeat. I now want to think of it as I am withdrawing from a battle that is not mine to fight.

I can see that she is replacing me by turning onto abusive friendships and relationships - this is all coming from a woman that kept repeating she did not need anybody. People around her make her feel used and taken advantage of and guess what I start hearing if I just say hello. The typical story would be that I deal with everyone that is making her upset. The funny part is that I would have to fight with my own mother while fighting her battles. I dedicated years of my life to this just to be called ungrateful. I feel like she wants me to make a commitment to her that I am not willing to make. There is no middle way with her, no compromises; she throws a tantrum like a 3 year old if she does not get her way - not even realizing that her words really hurt! I have never ever received an apology from her for anything. Her way of dealing with things is to let it run its course and then act like nothing has ever happened.

As far as contacting her goes, she is not making any attempts to talk to me either -not that she would ever try if I didn't. That does not bother me much, because I don't feel ready to talk to her. Quite frankly, I am fed up of acting upon my common conception that 'no matter what happens, she is my mother'. I want to know that I can break free!!

x
C

[Iwanttoheal]

It's amazing isn't it - you see the same themes repeating themselves again and again.

I too can relate to having a perfectionist mother, to having every little mistake being pointed out to me, to never being good enough.

Originally Posted by dothi

I think it's hard for us to feel like we can simply move forward because our brains are stuck developmentally at that stage where we're still relying on them to let us know that we're making smart choices.

What I have done over the past couple of months is to take several major decisions and steps without involving my codependent mother. The freedom it has given me is incredibly liberating eg my mother knows nothing about the fact my own family has recently been assessed by social services. By not involving her, I am free from her fears, her suspicions, her negative, judgemental attitude, her blame of me not being "perfect" - it is so great not to have this weight dumped on me.

One of the biggest lessons that I have learnt from SR is to distance yourself / not engage with unhealthy people (family or not). It feels strange at first but I have got used to it amazingly quickly - I guess that speaks volumes.

Take care, IWTHxxx