Originally Posted by BRUCE
peter,you wrote this
Autonomy" allows group concience to adapt whatever meeting format they feel comfortable with, even if it includes reading the "Clarity statement."
peter,,it works how and why,tradition 4,,pg. 155,,autonomy does not relieve groups of their obligation to observe and apply the spiritual principles embodied in the traditions,,basic text 5th edition tradition 4 pg 63,,a narcotics anonymous group is any group that meets reguarly,at a specified place and time,for the purpose of recovery,provided that it follows the twelve steps and 12 traditions of narcotics anonymous,,
THE NA TRADITIONS,,THE BOOK IT WORKS HOW AND WHY,,TRAD.8 PG 188,,WHAT IS NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS,AFTER ALL,BUT A FELLOWSHIP OF ADDICTS FREELY SHAREING WITH ONE ANOTHER THE SIMPLE MESSAGE OF THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST WE DO NOT SHARE OUR OWN EXPERIENCE,IT SUGGESTS WE ALTER OUR OWN EXPERIENCE.
funny, i dont see that in the clarity statement. to me, it says thta we have one disease and when anda's come into our meetings and say alcoholic or dopefiend, those anda's appear to suggest to the already confused newcomer that he has more than one disease and his problem is substance specific
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Originally Posted by BRUCE
TRADITION 9 ,,PG.193,WE OUGHT NOT CREATE A GOVERNING HIERACHY,A TOP DOWN BUREAUCRACY DICTATING TO OUR GROUPS AND MEMBERS,,DEF.OF DICTATE,TRANSCRIBE,,DEF.OF TRANSCRIBE,TO REWRITE,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS DICTATE/TRANSCRIBE,,OUR OWN EXPERIENCE.,/MESSAGE
again, i dont see where your comingfrom
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Originally Posted by BRUCE
,TRAD.10.PG.198,EVEN OUR LEADERS ARE ONLY TRUSTED SERVANTS,WITH NO POWER TO TELL INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS WHAT TO DO THINK OR SAY,NA MEMBERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES,TO DEVELOPE THIER OWN OPINIANS,AND TO EXPRESS THOSE OPINIONS AS THEY SEE FIT.,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST THAT NA HAS THE POWER TO TELL US WHAT TO DO ,THINK AND SAY,,
still dont see it
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Originally Posted by BRUCE
TRAD.11 PG.203,CLEARLY OUR TRADITIONS ARE JUST AS CONCERNED WITH OUR PUBLIC RELATIONS AS THEY ARE WITH OUR INTERNAL RELATIONS,,PG 208,EACH OF US HAS OUR OWN LIFE,OUR OWN WORDS ,AND OUR OWN STORY,ALL ADDING DIMENSIONH AND COLOR TO THE MESSAGE OF OUR FELLOWSHIP,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST WE DO NOT USE OUR OWN WORDS,
are we taliing about the same thing here?
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Originally Posted by BRUCE
WHEN TRADITION 11 SUGGESTS WE DO ,,,,,,,,THE NA TRADITIONS ARE ABOUT FREEDOM,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS ARE ABOUT CONTROL,
to me, the clarity statement is about letting people know that NA is about addiction, and not a specific substance.
but you know as well as i, to get here, we had to do some pretty heavy substance use, but this substance use is just a symptom of our addiction.
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Originally Posted by BRUCE
,THE DEFINITION OF GOVERN,,TO CONTROL,,NA GROUPS OR COMMITEES THAT USE THE CLARITY STATEMENTS IN THEIR FOMATS ARE SUGGESTING THAT NA GOVERNS,,,
wrong again. my home group uses the clarity statement, adn we don't suggest that na governs in the least. ok well, sometimes at business meetings we get into loving discussions on who f*cked up last week and didnt get the coffee comittment covered, but thats hardley governing
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Originally Posted by BRUCE
THE NA TRADITIONS,,THE BOOK IT WORKS HOW AND WHY,,TRAD.8 PG 188,,WHAT IS NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS,AFTER ALL,BUT A FELLOWSHIP OF ADDICTS FREELY SHAREING WITH ONE ANOTHER THE SIMPLE MESSAGE OF THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST WE DO NOT SHARE OUR OWN EXPERIENCE,IT SUGGESTS WE ALTER OUR OWN EXPERIENCE.TRADITION 9 ,,PG.193,WE OUGHT NOT CREATE A GOVERNING HIERACHY,A TOP DOWN BUREAUCRACY DICTATING TO OUR GROUPS AND MEMBERS,,DEF.OF DICTATE,TRANSCRIBE,,DEF.OF TRANSCRIBE,TO REWRITE,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS DICTATE/TRANSCRIBE,,OUR OWN EXPERIENCE.,/MESSAGE ,
do u like hearing yourself talk or something?
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Originally Posted by BRUCE
TRAD.10.PG.198,EVEN OUR LEADERS ARE ONLY TRUSTED SERVANTS,WITH NO POWER TO TELL INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS WHAT TO DO THINK OR SAY,NA MEMBERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES,TO DEVELOPE THIER OWN OPINIANS,AND TO EXPRESS THOSE OPINIONS AS THEY SEE FIT.,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST THAT NA HAS THE POWER TO TELL US WHAT TO DO ,THINK AND SAY,,
more disillusion
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Originally Posted by BRUCE
TRAD.11 PG.203,CLEARLY OUR TRADITIONS ARE JUST AS CONCERNED WITH OUR PUBLIC RELATIONS AS THEY ARE WITH OUR INTERNAL RELATIONS,,PG 208,EACH OF US HAS OUR OWN LIFE,OUR OWN WORDS ,AND OUR OWN STORY,ALL ADDING DIMENSIONH AND COLOR TO THE MESSAGE OF OUR FELLOWSHIP,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST WE DO NOT USE OUR OWN WORDS,,
by the time you get to na, you prolly have already come to the realization that drugs were only a symptom. if you didnt, then by the time you worked the FIRST step you did. after all, it says powerless of OUR ADDICTION, not mine, not yours but ours, and it doesnt say drugs, or alcohol or crack or heroin. the clarity statement is not taking away from anythin personal, to nme, it is emphasizing that we are not unique and we have one disease. no where in the clarity statement does it say NOT to use or SUGGEST NOT to use our own words
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Originally Posted by BRUCE
WHEN TRADITION 11 SUGGESTS WE DO ,,,,,,,,THE NA TRADITIONS ARE ABOUT FREEDOM,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS ARE ABOUT CONTROL,,THE DEFINITION OF GOVERN,,TO CONTROL,,NA GROUPS OR COMMITEES THAT USE THE CLARITY STATEMENTS IN THEIR FOMATS ARE SUGGESTING THAT NA GOVERNS,,,
peter,,clearly ,all clarity/identity statements conflict with the freedom that the na traditions offer,,so basicly peter,,,,,any group that uses the clarity /identity statements in thier formats are clearly not following the na traditions,,according to the basic text it is not an na group at all,,
huggs bruce
where does it CLEARLY say that a group who uses the clarity statement is not an na group?
CLEARLY you are disillusioned.
CLEARLY you need to work on the questions godsonmyside has presented to you
Originally Posted by godsonmyside
Have you worked a step lately?
Have you helped a newcomer stay clean today?
Have you done a selfless act with out telling anyone you did it?
Have you called your sponsor today?
Are you having any personal problems that you are avoiding by acting out in other ways that feed your disease?
Have you looked at a defect of character?
Have you asked God to remove a shortcoming?
Have you gone off track where you need get back to basics?
Have you told someone you loved them?
Can you asnswer these questions for me Bruce?