Originally Posted by
sandnuka 
Im pretty sure I have read on more than one site its 75x stronger.... and Im sure if your injecting bupe, and injecting morphine its gonna be the same 75x stronger.... the problem with suboxone is its antongist properties... will only get you so high.... thats why you can never get to that 75x stronger feeling..... now whats that other one.... subutux, I think thats what it is.... comes in 2mg, and that one, you can abuse... and you can die from the OD.
As for giving it to your opiate niave friends..... if I was to give my opiate niave friend something 75x stronger mg for mg to morphine, I think he would be puking and in a miserable state..... I know when I first took too much of my meds.... sick sick sick... itching..... throwing up..... dizzy..... sick.... and that was oxy!! so, I kinda disagree with your post. you can get high off of sub, I wouldnt recommend it.... but yes, very possible. this is why many people are addicted to it.
Well then those sites were wrong. Buprenorphine is about 25x stronger than oral morphine. Injecting buprenorphine doesn't change that equation, because when you take it as directed (under the tongue) it goes directly into your bloodstream as if you'd injected it. IOW, the introduction of bupe directly into the bloodstream is already part of the 25x calculation. There is no other way to TAKE bupe other than by direct introduction to the bloodstream. The drug does not survive processing by the stomach at ALL.
The caveat about oral morphine is there because orally administered morphine is much less effective (only around 40% the strength of injected morphine) due to breakdown of the drug by the stomach acid and enzymes. Bupe is not 25x stronger than injected morphine, no matter how you take the bupe.
The reason that you only get 'so high' from bupe, as well as the antagonist properties you speak of, are inherent to the drug buprenorphine, regardless of whether you are talking suboxone or subutex. Now matter how much you take, there is what is called a 'ceiling effect' with Bupe.
Bupe is an opioid agonist with an extremely high binding affinity to opioid receptors. On some of the opioid receptors (there are a number of different kinds), it has antagonist qualities. Thus, it's technically referred to as an partial opioid-agonist, with antagonist properties.
The reason bupe doesn't really get you high is that while it binds extremely tightly to the mu-receptor (the one responsible for 'highness'), it doesn't not actually stimulate the mu-receptor to produce the flood of 'feel-good' endorphins like oxys or heroin does.
When you take either pill as directed, suboxone and subutex work identically, and they both have same OD potential (which is very low relative to most opioids). It's only when you inject suboxone (due to presence of naloxone) that the two work differently ... suboxone is supposed to make you extremely dopesick due to the naloxone ... but supposedly it doesn't always work that way, according to some reports.
People get 'addicted' to suboxone and subutex for the exact same reason, and that is because buprenorphine, the active ingredient in both formulations when used as directed, is a powerful opioid drug that produces physical and psychological dependence just like any other opioid drug. You don't have to 'abuse' it, nor get 'high' off of it, in order to become addicted to it. And most people who take it are ALREADY opioid addicts anyways.
And I don't care HOW you use bupe ... it doesn't get you 'high' in any way that's even remotely equivalent to how you feel on heroin or oxy's or any other sort of 'good' dope. Yeah, it can 'mess you up' if you're not used to opioids or you take way too much, but it's not pleasant.