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ElegantlyWasted · 11-01-2009, 11:16 AM

Wow! Hot topic. For me I think that debate is great because at it's best it is a sincere effort to get to constructive course of action. Accordingly I have learned from this thread and know it has the potention to positively impact alot of people. The only thing I would like to see more of is actual sources for efficacy stats. Even real stats for effictive programs done with the best social science statistical techniques can be very misleading. You have to look at what the actual operational definitions are. Does drop out include " members that show up for only one meeting or those who have a sponsor and are working a program. I think the focus of this thread is how to actually best help the addict recover. To me it should be broken down simply. Addict is not living a constructive meaningful life. Addict comes to realize this And the role addiction plays. Addict realizes that in addition to abstaining from substances, maintaing sobriety requires a new approach to living life. Nothing wrong with the 12 as they are. Social norms change and hard science advances in ways that can help. AA is not dianetics and whatever you do outside AA is your business.

11-01-2009, 11:16 AM	#54 (permalink)
ElegantlyWasted Excellence... not Perfection Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 1,190 Blog Entries: 8	Wow! Hot topic. For me I think that debate is great because at it's best it is a sincere effort to get to constructive course of action. Accordingly I have learned from this thread and know it has the potention to positively impact alot of people. The only thing I would like to see more of is actual sources for efficacy stats. Even real stats for effictive programs done with the best social science statistical techniques can be very misleading. You have to look at what the actual operational definitions are. Does drop out include " members that show up for only one meeting or those who have a sponsor and are working a program. I think the focus of this thread is how to actually best help the addict recover. To me it should be broken down simply. Addict is not living a constructive meaningful life. Addict comes to realize this And the role addiction plays. Addict realizes that in addition to abstaining from substances, maintaing sobriety requires a new approach to living life. Nothing wrong with the 12 as they are. Social norms change and hard science advances in ways that can help. AA is not dianetics and whatever you do outside AA is your business. __________________ "We're all told at some point in time that we can no longer play the children's game, we just don't...we don't know when that's gonna be. Some of us are told at eighteen, some of us are told at forty, but we're all told."