[freya]

Originally Posted by Ago

So why is it so hard for us? We work so hard for so many years and here we are again?

This is hard for me for a few reasons 1) Although I am not at this point "in love" with her, I do still love her and I feel very strongly and value very highly her unique preciousness. Unfortunately, she does not see or value any of that, so 2) it's just so friggin' painful to see someone I care about so much abandoning herself the way she does constantly; and 3) It really is ludicrously and ridiculously close to impossible for me to really "get" the fact that she has so many chances and so much support to do otherwise and she just chooses not to. (..and then, of course, there are my "daddy" issues -- but I just wrote about that in the fear thread, so not gonna get into it here.)

And, I think, really, that I am not at all back to where I've been in the past over break-ups....I'm not really 100% sure why, but I think a lot of it has to do with my relationship with HP, which truly, as hideously hokey as this sounds, IS my primary relationship at this point. Can't friggin' believe I'm writing that....I can remember when my kids were little my Mary Kay lady talking to me about the Mary Kay philosophy of God first, Family Second, Career Third...and I would be like "BARF!" -- not to her, of course, but that's pretty much how I felt about it at the time....yeah, well, guess there's a reason their product line is so great!

I mean, when we separated 5 years ago, at which point I'd only been in program ~9 months, I was in a much better place than I had been when my husband left (alternately hating / not believing in god, narcissistically focused only on my problems and my misery, suicidal to the point that I sometimes couldn't remember that my kids were the reason that that was not a good idea!). And right now, I'd say I'm pretty much light-years away from that.

My "sponsor" left me a message late last night re: my message from earlier and she said: "Uh....you sound good....great....So, either you're going way over the deep end or you're really OK...If you're going over the deep end, you can call me back whenever you get this....otherwise, I'm going to trust that you're OK and I'll call you when I get off work tomorrow."

And I am OK.

Originally Posted by Ago

Truthfully?

Isn't that the only way???? Not that I'd expect any less from you!

Originally Posted by Ago

I see two things,

one: tonight doesn't make it "over", She'll be back (question is wadda gonna do when she comes back?)

BINGO -- already happened. Her father's having cancer surgery tomorrow -- which, given her inability to identify, talk about and work through her feelings is probably why this relationship thing is getting a little of her attention right now. So, I just basically said that I thought we needed to wait and discuss this further after that's over......even though I really would like to put it to rest now, the truth is I just really couldn't live with myself long-term if I wasn't able to be there for her through this.

So, yeah, what I'm gonna do is just keep praying and speaking the truth and not getting into a mess with her. Right now, I don't really have a sense that there is any other way "right" for this to be but "over."

Originally Posted by Ago

two: it's already been over for a long time, you just aint declared the corpse dead yet

Yup...actually had that exact same thought on my morning walk a few weeks ago.

Originally Posted by Ago

relationships are like sobriety or recovery, the people who want it/them work for it, then there's people who don't really want sobriety/recovery/relationships but say they do, but don't really put any effort into it. They make a lot of noise about it, maybe even go to a few meetings, but don't really put any real time or effort into it. They THINK that's what they want, they could give Shakespeare a run for his money on the drama they create, but their actions talk louder then words.

It's like, <shouting> WHAT??? WHAT??? I can't hear your bullshit excuses over how loud your actions are!!!!

If your relationship was sobriety, what would you say? Like if you really could detach. Toss all those F'ing stories out the window, the ones you tell, the ones she tells, and look at what her actions say. How high are YOU on that priority list? well, she needs a banker....umm...what else, someone to get jealous of....where is the someone to spend quality time with? Someone to have deep conversations with? I musta missed those in your post somehow.

What ARE her priorities? Are you willing to make somebody a priority when all you are to them is an option?

Yeah, the priority thing is very clear -- that actually is what that January cell phone thing was about for me. #s 1-99 are her virtual life......me, her birth family, her program and whatever else fight for the 100th spot.

She also needs someone to do her laundry and to, once in awhile, fix her a meal that doesn't come out of a cookie package or a chip bag. And we don't actually have meaningful conversations: She talks on and on at me about how terrible her life is and how miserable she is and how no one she interacts with does anything right, and when I try to ask her, nicely not confrontationally, what she's grateful for or what good happened in her day, she gets really pissed and either hangs-up or sarcastically reminds me that "she didn't drink today," at which point I pretty literally bite my tongue to keep from saying "Well, neither did I, and I get more points because I have to deal with you;" or "25 years without a drink and that's the only good thing you can say about your life? Don't you think that might be an indication that there's a problem with your f*ckin' program?" Instead, I say, "OK, goodnight. I'll talk to you tomorrow."

When I try to talk to her about what's going on for me, especially if it's good stuff related to program and program people, she looks at me like a deer caught in the headlights and gets very uncomfortable. I don't really try very often to talk to her deeply about troublesome stuff because she just enjoys being stuck in the problem way too much and that's not really helpful for me.

So, anyways, if this relationship was something I was doing as part of my recovery work, which, of course, it is, I guess I'd have to say that it's one of those things that I've given my best shot, but that, really just is not going to work for or be helpful to me.

Originally Posted by Ago

I look pretty butch, but godammit I can write my name in the snow when I pee so I'm out

I'm sure you do -- thanks for sharing!

Originally Posted by Ago

Hang in there Freya, take a step back and just watch, it will work out for the best, you know it will.

By the way, Monster Kudos for the program skills you demonstrated, you did a TON of things right

These are just my off the top of my head observations from a quick read through your story, I might be wrong.

...and I do feel like it is working out.

Thanks, Andrew, for all of that! You're a sweetie.......even if you do enjoy watching guys with mullets get beaten up by the cops!

freya