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phoenix71 · 01-05-2009, 12:47 AM

Thanks for your replies, it helps to know people are out there!!!

I chose detox for several reasons 1) my use of opiates was so high it was recommended to me; 2) my drinking was getting out of control; 3) to get me thru those 24 hours of withdrawal before I could take Suboxne. From experience those 24 hours are horrible and always broke my will to not use. To take an analogy from another board "Bad Angel" would always pipe up and convince me to use just so I didn't feel that way. Detox was a way to give "Good Angel" the upper hand to get past that point. And lastly 5) I wanted a clean break, a moment in time where I could say I AM DONE!!!.

Believe me I have already had the thought "well since I am on Suboxone it doesn't matter if I have a drink." But that drink will keep that neural pathway open and eventually lead me back to opiates. Suboxone used properly is not an exception to the going sober gig, just a way to get there. ( I don't know if that makes sense.)

As far as the AA/NA programs, yes I have had experience from all sides of the table, both as a user and as a co-dependent.

I am an agnostic, and though everyone says you don't have to believe - really all of the literature and all of the meetings underlie that. (EXAMPLE: Big Book Chapter 4 " ..you may be suffering from an illness that only a spiritual experience will conquer".) Yes I understand it is belief in a power greater than myself, and that could be the light switch or a dog, but the emphasis is undeniably on "God" as is understood by the Christian world.

Additionally so many people claim that it is not a "cult" (for lack of a better term) but then claim it is the ONLY way, well, it smacks of "cult" to me. (sadly I have first hand experience with a real cult too).

I also don't believe in powerlessness. I am NOT powerless, ultimately ONLY I can get power over this. Powerlessness takes the accountability out of my hands and I believe that makes relapse more likely. That doesn't mean I don't need and want help, I believe the only way to do this is with support and education, even if it DOES come from an AA/NA meeting.

Also, to me, the concept of one day at a time allows for failure. It gives you an option to use tomorrow. It may simply be sleight of hands, but that is how I feel. However even studies by AA show that only 5% of people make it thru a year. The failure rate of this program is astronomical.

And lastly the format does not work for me. I am a person who needs the back and forth conversation, discourse with others, direct advice and understanding. Yes it is helpful to know others are in the same boat, that I am not alone, but it is not how I learn best.

I DO believe the 12-steps themselves are overall a good tool for anyone as it helps you put things in perspective in many ways.

This being said, I am not trying to change anyones mind, or bash your belief by any stretch of the imagination. You asked why so I wanted you to know it is not a decision I have made lightly, I have put a lot of thought into it. IF IT WORKS FOR YOU THEN WORK IT!!!

(Isn't that how it is said?)

As far as other meetings - there really aren;t many. I live in Seattle WA and there is only ONE SMART meeting in the whole area. It amazes me sometimes the lack of alternatives. Sometimes I wonder if my calling is to find more alternatives for people at large but then I think I don't really want to spend my whole life thinking about addiction.

I apologize if this comes off as being defensive. I suppose some of it is -I am in the first stages of this process after all - but text can give a wrong impression.

Wow, I just rambled for quite a while. Thanks for listening (err... reading)

01-05-2009, 12:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
phoenix71 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 7	Thanks for your replies, it helps to know people are out there!!! I chose detox for several reasons 1) my use of opiates was so high it was recommended to me; 2) my drinking was getting out of control; 3) to get me thru those 24 hours of withdrawal before I could take Suboxne. From experience those 24 hours are horrible and always broke my will to not use. To take an analogy from another board "Bad Angel" would always pipe up and convince me to use just so I didn't feel that way. Detox was a way to give "Good Angel" the upper hand to get past that point. And lastly 5) I wanted a clean break, a moment in time where I could say I AM DONE!!!. Believe me I have already had the thought "well since I am on Suboxone it doesn't matter if I have a drink." But that drink will keep that neural pathway open and eventually lead me back to opiates. Suboxone used properly is not an exception to the going sober gig, just a way to get there. ( I don't know if that makes sense.) As far as the AA/NA programs, yes I have had experience from all sides of the table, both as a user and as a co-dependent. I am an agnostic, and though everyone says you don't have to believe - really all of the literature and all of the meetings underlie that. (EXAMPLE: Big Book Chapter 4 " ..you may be suffering from an illness that only a spiritual experience will conquer".) Yes I understand it is belief in a power greater than myself, and that could be the light switch or a dog, but the emphasis is undeniably on "God" as is understood by the Christian world. Additionally so many people claim that it is not a "cult" (for lack of a better term) but then claim it is the ONLY way, well, it smacks of "cult" to me. (sadly I have first hand experience with a real cult too). I also don't believe in powerlessness. I am NOT powerless, ultimately ONLY I can get power over this. Powerlessness takes the accountability out of my hands and I believe that makes relapse more likely. That doesn't mean I don't need and want help, I believe the only way to do this is with support and education, even if it DOES come from an AA/NA meeting. Also, to me, the concept of one day at a time allows for failure. It gives you an option to use tomorrow. It may simply be sleight of hands, but that is how I feel. However even studies by AA show that only 5% of people make it thru a year. The failure rate of this program is astronomical. And lastly the format does not work for me. I am a person who needs the back and forth conversation, discourse with others, direct advice and understanding. Yes it is helpful to know others are in the same boat, that I am not alone, but it is not how I learn best. I DO believe the 12-steps themselves are overall a good tool for anyone as it helps you put things in perspective in many ways. This being said, I *am not* trying to change anyones mind, or bash your belief by any stretch of the imagination. You asked why so I wanted you to know it is not a decision I have made lightly, I have put a lot of thought into it. IF IT WORKS FOR YOU THEN WORK IT!!! (Isn't that how it is said?) As far as other meetings - there really aren;t many. I live in Seattle WA and there is only ONE SMART meeting in the whole area. It amazes me sometimes the lack of alternatives. Sometimes I wonder if my calling is to find more alternatives for people at large but then I think I don't really want to spend my whole life thinking about addiction. I apologize if this comes off as being defensive. I suppose some of it is -I am in the first stages of this process after all - but text can give a wrong impression. Wow, I just rambled for quite a while. Thanks for listening (err... reading)