[winnie12]

Cassandra in my experience yes that is manipulation. Its form is more passive agressive and it works well on very giving people and codies. (do some research on passive agressive personalities and see if those trends fit your ex.)

my son uses that tactic all the time with me - he learned it from my ex. when i get upset he says - i didnt ask you to do this and he's right. he never asked me to do it so to him that means i cant complain. everything must turn around to be my fault in his mind - because if he sees something as his fault then he will have to deal with his problems. if he comes home because i ask him to or bail him out then in his mind i am willing to deal with him as he is and he doesnt have to change. if he asks me to come home and i agree then he has to deal with it on my terms. they use our love against us - they use our empathy against us - they use our giving nature against us. Its not that we cant ever give to them - but we have to give on our terms not theirs.

The way I deal with it now is that when he starts whining about a situation I say "that's sad for you" "so what are you going to do" "yeah that sure sounds like its going to be hard on you." I dont give him advice on what to do to get out of it and I dont offer my help - I've done enough for him there's no way I'm offering to do more. If he comes to me and says he has a problem, needs my help then it gives me the opportunity to say yes or no - if yes then I can easily set boundaries. I say no a lot now and tell him he'll have to find out how to accomplish these things on his own. They want us to save them - they want us to go back to the doormat role so that they dont have to change or help themselves.